Although the riddles are all presented in their original cryptic form, and remain in need of explanatory notes, it can be surmised that the focus of the debate was the belief in the G-d of the Jews, and the spiritual "chosenness" of the Jewish people over all other nations -- Rome included. Following these guidelines, a number of interpretations of the debate have been suggested (see especially Maharsha ad. loc., and the Vilna Gaon in his "Explanations of a few Agaddot," Vilna, 1800. Parts of the latter have been rendered in English by Rav Aharon Feldman, as part of his brilliant work, "The Juggler and the King," Feldheim Books, 1990).

I would like to present here one of the riddles, with an interpretation of the riddle based on the words of Maharsha, who sees this riddle as pertaining to the three weeks that start with the 17th day of the hebrew month Tammuz and terminate with 9th day of Av.

The Elders brought two eggs, and asked Rebbi Yehoshua, "Which of these eggs comes from a black hen, and which from a white hen?" Rebbi Yehoshua brought them two cheeses, and retorted, "Which of these cheeses comes from a black goat, and which from a white goat!"

(Bechorot 8b)

The Maharsha points out that on the previous page, the Gemara discussed the gestation periods of animals. The Gemara asserts that a hen's egg generally takes 21 days to hatch, just as the almond blossom takes 21 days to develop into a fruit. Tosefot ad. loc. quotes a Midrash (Introduction to Eicha Rabba, #23) that explains a prophesy of Yirmiyah based on this. Yirmiyah was shown an almond branch in a prophetic vision relating to reribution. The point of his vision, then, was to demonstrate that just as the almond blossom takes 21 days to produce fruit, so too, the destruction of Jerusalem will be accomplished during a 21 day period; from the 17th of Tamuz, until the 9th of Av.

In a similar manner, the eggs presented by the Elders were hinting to two 21 day periods: the period from the 17th of Tamuz until the 9th of Av, and the period from Rosh Hashana until Hoshana Rabba. Both periods are times of "Din," times when strict justice is being meted out. (See Rashi Eicha 1:3 about the three weeks preceding Tisha B'av, and Midrash HaZohar Vayikra 31b about the three weeks in the beginning of Tishrei).

However, during the former period, the anger of Hashem seems to be directed against the Jewish people. These three weeks mark the capture of Jerusalem by the invading Roman armies (Gemara Ta'anit 28b), and the destruction of the Holy Temple. Suffering and loss is the Jew's lot. It is the Romans who see favor and success during these weeks. During the latter period, on the other hand, the Jews emerge from the Heavenly Court victorious. We rejoice in the confidence that our prayers have been accepted (see Gemara Rosh Hashana 8b, Mishnayot Yoma end of Ch. 6, Yalkut Shimoni 651).

The Elders were telling Rebbi Yehoshua, "Don't you see? Jews aren't so special! You are subject to the powers of good and of evil, of victory and of defeat, just as the rest of us are. Equal time is being given to your "lucky stars" and your unlucky ones. The two "eggs," although both times of justice, clearly come from different powers. One comes from a "white" hen (symbolic of a deity of good), and the other, from a "black" one (symbolic of an evil and destructive deity)!"

(The black hen may even hint to Esav, son of Yitzchak, the patron father of the Romans, according to rabbinic tradition -- see Rashi to Bereishit 36:43. Esav was otherwise known as "Edom" [literally, "the red one"- see Breishit 25:25,30]. According to Chazal, the color black is generally a permutation of the color red -- see Gemara Suka 33b, Chulin 47b. Perhaps the Elders referred to a "black" hen, to hint to both the destruction of Yisroel and the rise of Rome in the same allegory.)

Rebbi Yehoshua was making it clear that *both* of the periods the Elders mentioned were actually times that Hashem was showing His love for the Bnai Yisroel, and showering His mercy upon them.

On Yom Kippur, the Torah commands us to bring two identical goats to the Holy Temple (Vayikra 16:5, Mishnayot Yoma 6:1). One is to be brought as a Korban [~sacrifice]. Its blood is sprinkled in the inner sanctum of the Beit Hamikdash, in a ceremony which remains of unparalleled spiritual significance among the Korbanot. The second goat is to be sent out to the Judean dessert, to be pushed off a cliff and tumble helplessly toward its death- the biblical scapegoat. An unknowledgeable observer would undoubtedly conclude that two deities have to be "appeased," one of holiness and kindness, the other of barrenness and destruction. These are the "white" and "black" goats to which Rebbi Yehoshua was referring. (Here too, the "black" goat can be seen as relating to the Romans. The Ramban, in his monumental work on the Torah, alludes to the fact that the scapegoat is related to Esav -- Rome's forebear -- and all that he stands for, see Ramban Vayikra 16:5).

However, this clearly isn't the case. The two goats certainly aren't brought to opposing forces, for what comes out of the two goats are two identical white cheeses. How is that?

Chazal [~our Rabbis] tell us that two red ribbons were taken on Yom Kippur. One was tied to the head of the scapegoat, and the other, to the neck of the sacrificial goat. When the scapegoat was pushed off the cliff, both ribbons miraculously turned white. This was alluded to in the words of the prophet Yeshayah (1:18), "If your sins are red as crimson, they will be made white as snow [when you repent]" (Mishnayot Yoma 4:2 and Tiferet Yisroel, Ibid 6:6,8).

It is clear that even the "black" goat brought us atonement just as the white goat did. What the two goats brought, were identical "white" cheeses. (Cheese and milk are generally symbols of mercy -see Parasha-Page of Shavuot 5754). They were both actually brought in the service of Hashem, the merciful G-d, to bring forgiveness to His chosen nation (see Ramban, Ibid).

In the same way, even the 21 day period leading up to the destruction of the Temple demonstrates Hashem's love for His people. Sometimes Hashem finds it necessary, in His merciful ways, to punish the Bnai Yisroel. Even this, however, is also for their ultimate good.

Hardships melt away a person's sins.

(Berachot 5a)

Hashem said, "I shall punish them in this world, in order that they may be stronger in the world to come."

(Avoda Zara 4a)

The destruction of the Holy Temple brings an atonement for the people.

(Rashi, Bamidbar 24:5)

When the Jews are punished, they humble themselves and pray to Hashem... [It may therefore be said that] the curses pronounced against sinners, preserve the Bnai Yisroel's spiritual integrity.

(Midrash Tanchuma, beg. of Nitzavim. See also Rashi ad loc.)

In this way Rebbi Yehoshua refuted the claims of the Elders. The punishments that we sometimes suffer at the hand of Hashem demonstrate Hashem's love for us just as much as the security and peace that He bestows upon us at other times. May Hashem speedily return us all to His land and, in our times, rebuild the holy city of Jerusalem, and the Beit Hamikdash!