More Discussions for this daf
1. "That the produce of the fields may be blessed" 2. 4 things that rip a g'zar din 3. Abaye said: If one sees success in the early harvest etc.
4. Life for this world or the next 5. Shinui Shem 6. Kabalas Pnei Rabo
7. Asmachta According The Ritva 8. Questions on Teki'os 9. The Right Horn of a Ram
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ROSH HASHANAH 16

David Goldman asks:

Hello, I have two interesting questions about the tekiyas.

1) The gemara referring to the tekiyas standing up (because of confusing the Soton)provides no context or additional information about this, and this blowing is not actually a mitzvah anyway. In that case, why should it be considered obligatory, and why did rishonim calculate some 30 tekiyas (at least) just for this purpose which is not a mitzvah. Indeed, we don't even know WHERE and among WHOM it was the practice to have two sets of tekiyas. Therefore, since no further information or context is provided, why must the statement be uniformly applied at all? Thus, it would seem to be logical to follow the gezeyra of Rav Avahu kepshuto, and simply blow 30 as a mitzvah obligation.

2) Since the reason for the tekiyas at mussaf was because of the Romans in Eretz Yisroel, since that problem no longer exists, why don't we have our tekiyas be done at shacharis, as was the way originally? And of course since the reasons for chazaras hashatz don't apply anymore since we have siddurim, it would seem logical to place tekiyas in the obligatory silent shmona esreh of shacharis.

David Goldman, USA

The Kollel replies:

1) It appears obvious from the Gemara that the universal practice was to blow Shofar while the community was sitting down. The Rashba writes that "to confuse the Satan" in fact means to confuse the Yetzer ha'Ra. The Satan is in fact synomynous with the Yetzer ha'Ra, because our worst enemy in the world is our "Evil Impulse." The idea of blowing Shofar before Musaf is to frighten us. Because of this, the "sitting" Teki'os were introduced so that people really would be moved to fear as a result of them.

2) The Me'iri, in "Chibur ha'Teshuvah" (page 357), writes that it is possible that Chazal retained the Teki'os in Musaf, even after the problem with the Romans had passed, because there are more people present at Musaf to hear the blowing. Not everyone was there for Shacharis.

The Mishnah Berurah (OC 124:12) writes that Chazaras ha'Shatz was insituted in case there might be someone in Shul who does not know how to daven Shemoneh Esreh. To our regret, there are too many Jews in our times who would fall into this category. Reading the Shomeneh Esreh out of a Sidur would not solve the problem entirely, because many people do not know how to read Hebrew.

G'mar Chasimah Tovah,

Dovid Bloom

David Goldman asks:

Thank you. Now we know that the practice has gone far beyond the original gezeyra of Rav Avahu (except perhaps among Yemenites) in relation to something that is not even a mitzva (the confusion of the soton) up to 100 tekiyyas all because of a discussion concerning the mother of Sisera - with the effect as if it were a mitzva of halacha (i.e. to be silent until the final tekiyya) which turns out to be something of a tircha letsibbur, especially if we consider all the extra piyyutim that are not required to be said and where people often fall asleep or engage in devarim betelim.

With regard to the chazaras hashatz, it would seem to me to something totally optional, since there are many siddurim in many languages that people can use. Indeed, the whole obligatory nature never applied to people who didn't know how to read the tefilla at ma'ariv, and yet ma'ariv became something of an obligation with no addition of chazaras hashatz to help those people (who anyway can use any siddur today) who would be "required" to davven maariv. If this is the case, then the same logic should apply to shachris and mincha which are obligatory, and yet the chazara is still used. It seems to be something of a contradiction, especially since a person can be yotsi a mitzva EVEN if he doesn't understand the language (i.e. megilas Esther).

Gemar chasima tova.

David G

The Kollel replies:

The language of public prayer is Hebrew. This is stated by the Chasam Sofer, cited by the Mishnah Berurah OC 101:13. The Heter that was given to daven in any language aplies only on an occasional basis, but the fixed language of prayer should be the Holy Tongue. This is why the Sidurim in different languages are not a permanent solution. Hence, Chazaras ha'Shatz is necessary so that everyone can have the crucial opportunity to be Yotzei the Tefilah in Hebrew.

Gmar Chasimah Tovah,

Dovid Bloom