the gemeara says that the mishna could be like Rav Meir even though he hold one day is chasuv shana, becasue the 30 days of "l'kita" and for the "tosefes shv'ius" which is the day before rosh hashana are counted l'kan ulkan. i dont understand why cant we give the same answer acc. to Rav. Elezar and say that the mishna could also go like him and that all 30 days are counted together as one counting?
david lowy, staten island,ny
The Gemara concludes that the author of the Beraisa which permits keeping a tree that has been planted thirty days before Rosh Hashanah of the Shemitah year must be Rebbi Meir. Thirty days is because that is how long it takes for a tree to take root ('li'Kelitah'), and the one day for Tosefes Shevi'is, that R. Meir requires, is included in the thirtieth day (Erev Rosh Hashanah).
That is only according to R. Meir, who holds that one day in the year is considered a year.
Rebbi Elazar, who holds that (a) one month is considered a year, and (b) it takes one month for a tree to take root, will require sixty days for the tree to be permitted, just like Rav Nachman says.
I do not understand why you suggest otherwise.
Be'Virchas Kol Tuv
Eliezer Chrysler
Thank you for your reply. but i'm not sure if my question was clear. i understand that R' Elazar requires 30 days for a year and 30 days for a tree to take root, what i dont understand is that why cant we say that just like R' meir says that you need 30 days for a tree to take root, and one day for a year, and we say that should be 31 days, and the gemara concludes that the last day(30) is counted twice, once for the completion of the 30 days for the tree to take root and as the one day for the year. so too why cant we say that we double all of R' elezars 30 days to be counted as both the 30 days for the tree and for a year.
Thank you- David lowy
Now your question is clear. To answer, we will need to understand the mechanics of 'Yom Sheloshim Oleh le'Ka'an u'le'Ka'an'. Why should it?
The Ritva explains that, according to R. Meir, the Kelitah finishes already in the morning of the thirtieth day, leaving the rest of the day to serve as the last day of the year.
Needless to say, that is only possible according to R. Meir, as the Gemara concludes. According to R. Elazar, even if we count the last day of Elul as one day of the thirty required days, that still leaves another twenty-nine days.
Be'Virchas Kol Tuv
Eliezer Chrysler