More Discussions for this daf
1. tense/order 2. Toil-Free in Egypt 3. TOSFOS DH ELA d'Ka'i
4. Eisanim 5. The Twelfth Principle of the Rambam 6. Mazalos
7. Mazalos 8. Did Man really want to be Created? 9. Creation in Nisan or Tishrei
10. Parents vs. Mountains 11. Shaving on Rosh Hashanah 12. Machlokes R"I and R"E
13. Month the world was created in 14. Point by Point Outlines and Review questions - Correction 15. In What Month Was the World Created?
16. אלא דקאי בחג ואמר ליה 17. מחלוקת ר"י ור"א בענין בריאת העולם

Andrew asked:


I have 2 questions:

1. Why on 11a in the section starting 9 lines down from the top of the big lines (B'pesach nolad yitzchak...) do we see "v'ka'amar lei " when referring to G-d telling Avraham about the return for the first two guesses the Gemara gives and then "v'ka'amar la " for the last guess?

2. Is there any reason why the Braisa lists (as shown on 11a 6 lines from the bottom) Sara, Rochel and then Chana and the Gemara gives proofs mi'd'orisa with the order: Rochel, Chana, the connection to R"H, Chana again and then Sarah?

Thanks and best wishes!


Andrew, Troy, NY

The Kollel replies:

1. It would seem that in all three suggestions Hash-m is talking to Avraham, and therefore the correct text can only be 'Amar Leih.'Indeed, the Dikdukei Sofrim cites the Oxford and Berlin manuscripts, which have that Girsa here as well. (Old prints had "Lah" the second and third times, and "Leih" the first time. This doesn't seem to be any better than the newer prints.)

2. Yes, there is! The Beraisa lists Sarah, Rachel and Chanah in their chronological order, whereas the Gemara is concerned with presenting the order of how they are learned: Rachel, from whom we learn Chanah (with "Zechirah" "Zechirah"), and Chanah, from whom we learn Sarah (with "Pekidah "Pekidah").

Be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.

The Kollel adds:

1. The Rashash changes the third to "Lei."

2. As Chanah is the source from where we learn Rachel, and Leah also, were Nifkad on Rosh Hashanah, the Gemara decided to start from Chanah who is at the end of the list. It therefore makes sense that the Gemara would address the one closest to Chanah on the list, namely Rachel. Once the Gemara establishes that we learn Chanah was Nifkad on Rosh Hashanah, it no longer has to mention it again when learning Sarah from Chanah.

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose