More Discussions for this daf
1. ha'He Savta 2. Tosfos DH Rebbi Yehudah 3. Stolen Land/Borrowed Sukah
4. Tosfos Yarok k'Karsi 5. Transliteration Of Old French In Tosfos DH Yarok 6. Incident With Old Woman
7. Gazul 8. The Elderly Lady and the Sukah 9. Sending someone out of his Sukah
10. Mitzvah that Comes from a Sin 11. Lulav of Avodah Zarah 12. Mitzvah ha'Ba'ah ba'Aveirah (Mitzvah that comes from a sin)
13. Sukah Gezulah 14. Extrapolating with the 13 Midos on One's Own 15. Tosafot R yehuda
16. ההיא סבתא
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SUKAH 31

Avraham Sacks asks:

Hello,

I am currently learning Sukkah and I'm somewhat perturbed by an incident recounted in Sukkah 31a.

The gemarah, particularly Rav Nachman, seems to be exceedingly insensitive towards the old woman. I would have thought that she should have been dealt with more sympathetically.

Also Rav Nachman seems to accept that there had indeed been a theft, but there is no apology or criticism of the ganavim.

I should be grateful if you are able to explain how this Gemarah can be understood in a way that makes Chazal appear less insensitive towards an old woman.

Kind regards,

Julian Alper

Tiberias

The Kollel replies:

I have always been perturbed by this Gemara myself and the apparent callous insensitivity towards this woman. I saw one suggestion in the Chasam Sofer (and Teshuvos Beis She'arim #13) who says that the reason why Rav Nachman did not originally refer to her claim was in order to help her, since if she would wait until after the Chag she would get back the wood itself and not just the money of the wood, in accordance with what Ravina says later on in the Gemara. However, the woman insisted on making a fuss, so Rav Nachman said she is complaining but she will lose out from it and only get the monetary equivalent but not her wood.

This is because Takanas ha'Shavim works during the Chag to make a Kinyan (since the Mitzvah makes it like a regular building) and then they do not need to return the wood after the Chag. If she had complained after the Chag, there would have been no need for Takanas ha'Shavim and therefore she would have received the wood itself.

It is interesting to note that the first Ra'avad (Ba'al ha'Eshkol) writes that the sages did not recite a Berachah upon sitting in this Sukah because the wood was stolen. However, the Ba'al ha'Itur (another Rishon from Provence) says that the woman was being offered the money for the wood at the same time she was complaining but she wanted the actual wood, which would contradict the Takanas ha'Shavim. In this case, the sages could actually make a Berachah. (Rav Ovadyah Yosef in Yechaveh Da'at 5:46 says that the Halachah is in accordance with this opinion.)

Yoel Domb