More Discussions for this daf
1. Saving a child in a town populated mostly by non-Jews 2. Atonement for sins between man and his fellow man 3. Baby found in public
4. Saving a non-Jew 5. Shmuel vs a group of Tannaim
DAF DISCUSSIONS - YOMA 85

Menachem Weiman asks:

While Shmuel was a great sage, the Tannaim in the Braisa were much greater. It seems disrespectful how Shmuel and Rava are treating the sages in the Braisa. Generally the Amoraim give deference to a Braisa. Why is this gemara different?

Menachem Weiman, St. Louis, United States

The Kollel replies:

1) We know that the Gemara sometimes says (see Eruvin 50b) that Rav is a Tana and capable of arguing with other Tanaim. Now the Chidushei Rashba Shabbos 37b end DH uMihu writes that we also say that Shmuel is a Tana and can argue with other Tanaim.

[We should not forget that Rav and Shmuel were the 2 greatest Chachamim of their day and there is a rule that the Halacha follows Shmuel when he argues with Rav on monetary matters; see Bechoros 49b. So it is not so surprising if we find that the Rashba writes that Shmuel can dispute with Tanaim in the same way that Rav can - DB]

2) We do find in Bava Metzia 102a-b that there is a dispute in the Mishnah who gets the rent. On 102b Rav said "If I would have been there I would have given it all to the landlord". In Megilah 7a Shmuel said "if I would have been there I would have said something better than all of them". So the way Shmuel related to the Tanaim here is not unique in Shas.

3) The point is that Rav and Shmuel belonged to the first generation of Amoraim after the Mishnah, and were very close to the level of the Tanaim, so they were able to differ with Tanaim in a similar way that Tanaim differed with each other. Also, it should be remembered that in our Gemara Shmuel is not arguing in practical Halacha on the Tanaim, but merely in the way that the Halacha is derived, and from which verse.

Further examples to show that Shmuel was similar to the Tanaim:

1) There is a Gemara Pesachim 102a (that we learnt not so long ago in dafyomi) where Rav Yehuda said in the name of Shmuel that the Halacha does not follow either Rabbi Yehuda or Rabbi Yosi, but he spreads a cloth and makes Kidush. This suggests that Shmuel possesses the power to disagree with Tanaim and decide the Halacha.

2) The Biur HaGra on Shulchan Aruch Even Ha'Ezer 115:13 writes that the way of the Gemara in many places is to explain the words of Shmuel. This suggests that just like the way of the Gemara is to explain the words of the Tanaim, so too the Gemara explains the words of Shmuel, since Shmuel is on a similar level to a Tana. The Gra cites 2 examples of Gemaras like this:-

(a) Pesachim 7b where Rav Yehuda said in the name of Shmuel that one always makes a beracha on a Mitzvah "Over" to doing the Mitzvah. The Gemara proceeds to explain what the word "Over" used by Shmuel means.

(b) The Gemara Kesubos 72b where Rav Yehuda in the name of Shmuel explains what the Mishna 72a means when it says that one of the reasons that the husband can divorce his wife is because she curses "Yoldav" in front of him. Shmuel said that this means that she curses her husband's father in front of her husband's son. The Gemara gives a verse to help us remember this; Bereshis 48:5 that "Efraim and Menasheh are like Reuven and Shimon to me". We learn that grandchildren are equivalent to children, so if she curses the grandfather in front of the grandchilden, this is equivalent to cursing the father-in-law in front of her husband, and he may divorce her.

Behatzlachah Rabah

Dovid Bloom