on daf 40a b4 the gemorah says (4 lines up an answer that its R' Shimon) the gemorah previously said it is R' Yehudah and he did the matan damim on the mizbayach before the zerikah of the goat on the paroches (be'haichal)--out of order. Q. if he was doing the matanah on the mizbayach that assumes the blood was mixed so how is he going to go back to do the zerikah of the goat?
possible answers? what do you think?
1) he didn't mix all the blood. (dochak)
2)this answer already assumes it is R' Yehudah he is the Tanah that we will later says holds (actually from the mixing of the bloods) that min b-mino is not batel so he will go back and do the zerikah with the mixed blood he has
thank you again. chailchem l'oraisah
josh
Below is a copy of what we wrote about this to another reader who submitted the same question.
Be well,
Mordecai Kornfeld
The Gemora is discussing cases where one switches around the order of the bull and the goat, does he have to start all over again. At one junction in the Gemora, we think that the case is as follows: the kohen sprinkles the blood of the bull on the mizbeach before he sprinkled the blood of the goat on the Paroches in the Heichal.
QUESTION: what happened in this case? Normally, the two bloods are mixed together and sprinkled on the Mizbeach after he completed all the sprinklings on the Paroches. Here, that can't be the case because he subsequently went and sprinkled the blood of the goat on the Paroches afterwards and presumably this was done by itself. If he did not mix the blood, then how could he sprinkle the blood of the Par on the Mizbe'ach? What was done?
avrohom adler, cleveland, usa
Beautiful question! Perhaps that is one of the reasons for the Vilna Gaon's erasure of this section of the Gemara. (However, all of the Rishonim and Kisvei Yad have the section.)
Perhaps the Gemara is suggesting that the Beraisa maintains "Ein Me'arvin le'Keranos," the blood is mixed after sprinkling on the corners of the Mizbe'ach and before sprinkling on the top of the Mizbe'ach (see Yoma 57b).
Be well,
Mordecai Kornfeld
greetings,
I'm a little unclear as to your answer. The same question (see below) still exists for most of the amud before your answer--57a--which asks explicitely about if the blood was mixed how does the he finish doing the rest of the zrikah on the paroches.
thank you
--josh
Josh - You have a good point there. On 57a we see clearly that mixed blood can be used for Haza'os of Dam Sa'ir, if one intends for the Haza'ah to be specifically "for the sake of" the Dam Sa'ir in the mixture. This is similar to your second suggestion to answer the question you asked on Daf 40a.
I would like to bring to your attention two points about this, though:
First, note that the Rishonim (Tosfos 57b DH Ela, and others) say that it is not necessary to resort to Rebbi Yehudah's opinion that Min b'Mino Eino Batel in order to understand this Gemara. Even the Chachamim (who say Min b'Mino is Batel) agree that "Olin" (bloods used on the Mizbe'ach etc.) are not Batel (Menachos 22a).
Second, this suggestion would not seem to suffice to answer your question on 40a. If the bloods had been mixed for the Keranos, the Beraisa would not have said that the "Dam Par" of the Keranos was applied out of order, but rather that the "Damim" of the Keranos were applied out of order (since the mixed bloods of the Sa'ir and the Par were applied to the Keranos together). The answer that I suggested solved this problem.
Best wishes,
M. Kornfeld