More Discussions for this daf
1. Order of daily Avodah 2. Where did the Kohen Gadol wash his hands and feet 3. Nesachim
4. Tziruf of the iron sticks 5. Tosfos DH Hani Mili 6. Maleches Machsheves

Yosef Gliksman asks:

In the middle of the tosfos where he discuses that Maleches Machsheves is not the reason R' Shimon Holds that Dovor Sheino Miskaven is Puter. Tosfos adds V'Od R Shimon holds mekalkel is Chayev in Mavir even though in other Malachos Mekalkel is Puter because only Malaches Machsheves is Assur (as is stated in Chagiga 10a) Why is Mekalkel not a Malaches Machsheves? He could have an intention to be Mekalkel? So why is it not a Malaches Machsheves?

Yosef Gliksman, Brooklyn, NY

The Kollel replies:

Sholom Rav

The very point Tosfos is making is that Davar she'Ein Miskaven and Meleches Machsheves are two independent issues. In that case, Meleches Machsheves applies even if one is Mechaven, and you will have to redefine 'Meleches Machsheves'. The new defininition will include the fact that the Melachah must be constructive, and not destructive.

b'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrusler.

Yosef Gliksman asks:

Thank -you for your response. According to Tosofos at this point why does Reb Shimon hold that Havarah and Chabura are chayev even if it's Mekalkel and Misasik. Because for these Malachos (Chabura and Havara) Meleches Machsheves is not needed or beacause for these Malachas even Mekalkel and Misasik it is a Malaches Machsheves? TY.

The Kollel replies:

Sholom Rav,

The former theory is correct. Mis'asek is a fact that cannot be removed from any particular Melachah.

Be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.

Yosef Gliksman asks:

In other words the question of V'od Reb Shimon... is that even if it is not a Malaches Machsheves according to Reb Shimon by Havara it would not be Puter anyway thus we can not say Eino Miskaven is Puter by Havara because it does not have the criteria of Malaches machsheves as Reb shimon holds Malaches Machsheves is not necessary by Havara. Is my understanding correct?

The Kollel replies:

Spot on.

Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler