More Discussions for this daf
1. "Teishev l'Zachor ul'Nekevah" 2. A first baby born as a miscarriage 3. Do we rule like Rav or like Shmuel?
DAF DISCUSSIONS - NIDAH 25

S. Katz asked:

(1) Regarding Pidyon Haben :

If a mother's first baby is a miscarrage , after 40 days from conception, but it is unclear regarding it's developmental status,

ie. " Shafir Maleh Basar, Ahcur ", embroy full of muddy substance.

And the second baby a healthy baby Boy.

Would the baby require a Pidyon HaBen ?

I would think not. Not only because Rav Yeshuah poskined that way ( it doesn't mean we do ).

But because the halacha follows Shmuel in monetary matters, and in such a circumstance, Shmuel holds " Chosheshes "-we are concerned that the first baby Might have been a developed child.

For the sake of the parents, who do not want anyone to know that their first child was a miscarrage.

Would there be anything wrong with doing a public Pidyon HaBen, just not saying the Bracha ( or just mumble it , without Hash-m's name), and the Cohen will give back the money afterwards ? therefore keeping the family secret.

Thanks

(2) Follow up question :

Where does burial play a role .

At what point does a Miscarrage require to be buried, is it the same requirements as we are saying regarding Yoledet ?

If a woman miscarries after 40 days from conception, does the fetus, or whatever material comes out, require burial ?

Thanks

The Kollel replies:

(1) The Rema in Shulchan Aruch (YD 305:23) rules that if the fetus is undeveloped, it does not exempt the next birth from Pidyon ha'Ben.

The Pischei Teshuvah cites the Maharik and Noda b'Yehudah who write that if it was not examined, then mi'Safek one is Chayav, because the woman has a Chazakah that she has not yet given birth. The Chacham Tzvi argues and says that there is a Rov against the Chazakah, and thus mi'Safek one is Patur. The Chasam Sofer writes that if one wants to be Machmir, he may say the Berachah without Shem Hash-m.

As for the family secret, even if the scenario you propose would be safe Halachically, it certainly would seem wrong to prevaricate a Halachic ceremony. Genevas Da'as certainly would apply in such a situation, as all of the invited guests would think that they are participating in a Se'udas Mitzvah when it is actually not. In general, it seems a bad precedent to ceremonially do a Mitzvah in a "k'Ilu" fashion. The ramifications of finding "Eitzos" to circumvent Halachah can easily move from innocuous to dangerous. (All this is my personal opinion.)

(2) The Maharsham (4:146) writes that a fetus less than three months does not need burial.

D. Zupnik