More Discussions for this daf
1. SOBRE LO QUE DIJO RABI. SHIMON BARIOJAI..... 2. marital relations only when clothed? 3. four i hate and i don't like
4. Rav Miller source
DAF DISCUSSIONS - NIDAH 16

Yehoshua Lovinger asked:

I was looking at the meimra of R. Shimon bar Yochai where he lists 4 things that Ha-Kadosh Baruch hu does not like. I looked at the parallel in arvei pesachim 112a and saw that Rashbam there points to Vayikra Rabbah 18:3 where Rashbi's meimra/list is repeated with some differences, including 2 new items on the list. One of the new ones is that "lo yeshameish et mitaso arom" = one should not have marital relations while unclothed. Are there other sources for this din? Is this the halakha today? (E.g. among Chassidim - might such practices be based on this Vayikra Rabbah or are there other sources?) Any help if finding sources would be greatly appreciated. kol tuv.

Yehoshua Lovinger, NY, NY

The Kollel replies:

Based on a Gemara in Kesuvos (48a), he Shulchan Aruch (E'ven ha'Ezer 76:13) rules that if a man insists that intimacy must be performed fully clothed, his wife may demand a divorce with her Kesubah paid. The Rema adds that in the event that the woman is the one to insist, then the man is entitled to divorce her without a Kesubah. Refer to the Beis Shmuel, who explains why the Rambam does not cite this Gemara le'Halachah. Clearly then, it is normal for husband and wife to be intimate without clothes, and (short of a mutual agreement to the contrary) neither is entitled to withhold this right from the other.

That being the case, the ruling of the Chochmas Adam, (K'lal 128:12) who forbids Tashmish without clothes, is difficult to understand.

It is important to bear in mind, that aside from the above ruling, there are other considerations concerning modesty that need to be taken into account. Firstly, Tashmish is forbidden by day or where the light of a lamp (or even of the moon) is shining directly on to the bodies (even if they are covered by a sheet), unless one erects a partition between them and the source of light, and even then one is obligated to block whatever light there is with a sheet or a coat.

Secondly, looking at the location of Tashmish on one's wife's body is prohibited in any case, and someone who does so is considered immodest (see Orach Chayim Siman 240:5 & 11).

be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.