DAF DISCUSSIONS - PESACHIM 64

Shlomo Amar asked:

Kevod Harav

Could you please explain to me the 3 groups kahal edat and Israel and how the gemara concludes that they were 3 groups each one made on 30 people.

Then the gemara implies that the minimum people in the hazara was 50.

Thank you

sa

The Kollel replies:

We are in doubt as to whether the Torah requires three groups of ten (Kahal, Eidah and Yisrael) individually (three times ten people), or in one go (one times thirty). To accommodate both possibilities, R. Yitzchak necessitates three times thirty (ninety people all in all).

We conclude however, that fifty people will suffice to fulfill both requirements. How is that? By getting thirty people to Shecht at the same time, and then by ten of the first group leaving the Azarah, and another ten taking their place, and finally, by repeating this procedure. It now transpires that by each Shechitah, there will be thirty people in the Azarah, each of whom has Shechted his Korban Pesach.

Be'Virchas Kol Tuv and wishing you a Chag Kasher ve'Same'ach.

Eliezer Chrysler.

Alex Lebovits asks:

R' Chrysler Hello!

You write "By getting thirty people to Shecht at the same time, and then by ten of the first group leaving the Azarah, and another ten taking their place, and finally, by repeating this procedure."

Actually the Gem. writes "By getting thirty people to Shecht at the same time, and then by getting " ten of the second to enter the Azarah, and getting ten of the first to leave", and finally , by repeating this procedure.

Rashi learns the Gem. the way you learned it..

Why do you both change from what the Gem. actually says?

Thank you

Alex Lebovits

The Kollel replies:

I obviously cited Rashi's explanation, whose text seems to have read the way he writes it, though frankly speaking, I don't think that the order makes any difference, as long as there are thirty people in the Azarah whilst the lambs are being Shechted. In the Mishnah notice, the group that has already Shechted left the Azarah before the next group entered (for obvious reasons), so Rashi probably maintains that there is no reason to differentiate just because the groups are small.

Incidently, Rabeinu Chananel distinctly reads the Gemara like Rashi, only according to him, although thirty people enter the Azarah initially, only ten Shecht at that stage. They then leave and ten others enter the Azarah and Shecht. Presumably then, it is when the third ten replace the second, that the thirty Shecht.

Come to think of it, why do twenty of the thirty who have already Shechted need to remain in the Azarah? Having fulfilled the requirement of three groups Shechting simultaneously, why can they not just leave, and another ten then enter ... ?

See Me'iri on the Mishnah and note 10, who clarifies the issue.

Wishing you a Chag Kasher ve'Samei'ach

Eliezer Chrysler.