More Discussions for this daf
1. "Shelukin" and "Mevushalim" 2. Kil'ayim Of Lettuce
DAF DISCUSSIONS - PESACHIM 39

Albert Battat asked:

erev yom kipur 5759,

shalom uberacha, gmar hatima tova.

bamishna neemar ... aval lo kevuchin velo shelukim... rashi omer shelukim:

mevushalim harbe meod... mevushalim : kederech bichul.

lama hamishna tsericha lelamed oti shelukim?

im mevushalim assurim kal vachomer shelukim. ( mevushalim harbe)

toda merosh

[Translation: The Mishnah says that one does not fulfill his obligation to eat Maror by eating vegetables which are "Kevushin," "Shelukin," or "Mevushalin." Rashi says that "Shelukin" are vegetables that have been "cooked a lot" -- "Mevushalin Harbeh." Why, then, does the Mishnah say "Shelukin" if it already mentioned "Mevushalin?" If one is not Yotzei with *cooked* vegetables, then certainly one is not Yotzei with *very cooked* vegetables!]

The Kollel replies:

She'eila Tovah. Ha'teshuvah ha'peshutah hi sheha'Mishnah "Lo Zu Af Zu Ketani": Zot omeret, lo rak she'ein adam Yotzei im Shelukin, she'hem mevushalin harbeh, ela afilu im Mevushalim k'darko ein adam Yotzei Yedei Chovaso -- v'Chen kasvu ha'Tosfos (39b, DH Lo)

[Translation: Good question. The simple approach is that the Mishnah means "Lo Zu Af Zu Ketani" -- "not only this (Shelukin), but *even* this (Mevushalin) is invalid" This is the way TOSFOS (39b, DH Lo) understands the Mishnah.]