More Discussions for this daf
1. Cannot exempt "misah kalah" with cash- Rashi's example chosen 2. The Hava Amina that Kofer can exempt from Misah 3. Song re a Korban
4. Vow for charity
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERCHIN 6

Jeremy Levine asked:

I have a question on the daf

The gemara says, as you write:

"f) Answer (Beraisa - R. Yishmael, son of R. Yochanan ben Brokah): We find that people who are Chayav Misah bi'Yedei Shamayim get atonement through money - "Im Kofer Yushas Alav."

1. Suggestion: Perhaps this applies even to one who is Chayav Misah bi'Yedei Adam!

2. Rejection: "Kol Cherem... Lo Yipadeh."

3. Suggestion: Perhaps this applies only to "severe" capital transgressions, but not for "light" ones, i.e. for which the Torah gives an atonement if done b'Shogeg (i.e. Galus for murder, Chatas for Chayavei Kerisus)!

4. Rejection: " Kol Cherem." "

What exactly is the hava meina. It seems that because we know that there is a din of kofer by shor there should be a din of kofer by misah beyidah odam so we need a posek to tell us no. My question is why would we think to learn out a kola from kofer to byidah odom which is more chomer

The Kollel replies:

Excellent question. Your question is raised by Tosfos in Kesuvos 37b DH Yachol. TOSFOS offers an answer, in the name of Maharam, which I understand as follows.

The verse says (with regard to the Kofer of a person whose ox kills a man) "v'Gam Be'alav Yumas." Chazal learn two different Halachos from the word "Yumos." One is that the person who owns the ox is Chayav Misah b'Yedei Shamayim . The other is that the ox is killed in the same manner as a person who is Chayav Misah b'Yedei Adam ("k'Misas ha'Ba'alim..."). We thus see that the word Yumas in the verse of Kofer refers both to Misah b'Yedei Adam and Misah b'Yedei Shamayim . Such a verse acts as a form of "Hekesh," and that is why we would compare the two types of Misah with regard to Kofer if not for the verse "Kol Cherem."

The SHITAH MEKUBETZES there offers another approach based on his understanding of Rashi there. (He says that according to Rashi, the Gemara didn't yet know that we learn from "Rotze'ach Hu" that a person is not killed when his ox gores a person to death. The Gemara is actually suggesting that the person who owns the ox might be Chayav Misah b'Yedei Adam , and exempted with Kofer.)

Best wishes,

M. Kornfeld