Stop this ignorance! The said Massekhet is called Arakhin!!! And not Erchin
Yaaqov Loewinger - civ.eng., Tel Aviv, Israel
Greetings,
Thank you for your comment.
We transliterate Arachin incorrectly as "Erchin" out of convention; we follow the popular pronunciation among the majority of those who study Talmud in depth, even though it is the incorrect pronunciation. We do the same thing with words such as "Migu" (instead of "Migo") and "Ra'uy l'Bilah" (instead of "Ra'uy l'Vilah").
Y. Shaw
Thank you, Yaaqov. Although what Reb Yisrael wrote above holds true in many cases, in this particular case a grammatical argument can certainly be made in defense of "Erchin."
Best wishes,
Mordecai Kornfeld
Don't forget Yuma for Yoma. Yuma is a city in Arizona.
Rabbi Leo Jung, in his autobiography , tells of an incident that occurred when he studued in the Berlin Seminary under Rav Dovid Tzvi Hoffmann. A student in the shiur was reading the gemara, and he pronounced the word 'bediavad' in correct Aramaic, instead of in the usual way of pronouncing it, 'bedieved.' R. Hoffmann repremanded him and said he shouldn't try to impress him with his Aramiac, because he could show him that he made a lot of mistakes himself (something like that- I don't have the book in front of me). When you learn, he said, pronounce it the way it is usually pronounced.
I heard a similar story from Rabbi Moshe Bernstein of YU concerning his father, R. Michal Bernstein, who was a professor of Semitic languages, as well as a Rosh Yeshiva in RIETS for a time. Once, when they were learning gemara, R. Moshe B. broke into proper Aramaic. His father told him to use the usual pronunciation, because 'when you learn, you learn.'
מה שנאמר כאן על המצוי בדקדוק הארמי הוא נכון מאוד. באשר למילה ערך עצמה - היא אינה מוכרת לי בארמית. לכן לשיטת המשיב יש לדייק ולומר שהצורה ערְכין בשווא היא על דרך הארמית, ולא ששם המסכת הוא בארמית.
ואולם לעצם השאלה, לדעתי אין צורך ב"תירוץ" כלל. צריך לדעת שבפי האשכנזים (וגם בפי עדות אחרות) שמות המסכתות וכן מילים אחרות בלשון חז"ל אינן תמיד על פי הדקדוק המתבקש לכאורה. למשל, עוקצין לפי "דקדוק" צריך להיות עֳקָצין, אבל אשכנזים הוגים עוּקְצין. תוסָפות - אשכנזים הוגים תוסְפות, פרָשה - אשכנזים הוגים פרְשה, ועוד כהנה וכהנה!
מסורות העברית לדורותיה סוטות הרבה מן הדקדוק ה"טהור" לכאורה, כלומר מן הדקדוק המקראי, ואין בזה כל פסול. זו דרכה של לשון. מי שהוגה ערְכין (מן הסתם במלעיל) מצד מסורת אבותיו ורבותיו אין זה נכון לומר לו שהוא טועה וש"צריך" לומר ערָכין (ומן הסתם בלמרע). וכלל ידוע הוא: לשון מקרא לעצמה ולשון חכמים לעצמן. "בורות" בוודאי אין כאן!
וראה על העניין בכללו: נ. ברגגרין, עיונים בלשון העברית, 77 ואילך.
חיים כהן
Similarly, I heard from a talmid of Rav Y.D. Soloveitchik, that Rav Soloveitchik criticized R' Aharon Lichtenstein's careful diduk when reading aloud in shiur. However, it is important to distinguish between learning Torah shebichsav, where the words and pronunciations themselves possess inherent significance, and Torah sheba'al peh, where understanding the material is the key. See the Beis Yosef (Orach Chaim, 61) who quotes R' David Kimchi that even an individual learning Tanach by himself is obligated to be careful with correct pronunciation.
In any event, we should take ma'asei rav seriously; I would be interested to see an actual halachic source indicating that it is preferable to mispronounce words in one's learning Torah sheba'al peh for the sake of conforming to popular convention. Might this be based on "sh'ma' b'ni musar avicha" (see Pesachim 50)? If so, would this be considered a minhag chashuv or a minhag garu'a' (see Rosh, Makom Shenahagu, siman 3; see also Beis Yosef, Yoreh De'ah, 214; Shach, 214:7)? (The fact that some Talmidei Chachamim were apparently particular about mispronouncing in learning could be due to the fact that they needed to put on a show for the non-b'nei Torah because of a chashash of the amei ha'aretz being m'dameh milsa l'milsa and coming to be oveir al divrei Torah.) If this is indeed a minhag garu'a', are we choshesh for those poskim that don't distinguish between a minhag chashuv and a minhag garu'a' (see Tur and Bach, 214; Or Zaru'a')? In any event, if this is a minhag chashuv, why would it have been initiated? Someone told me that he heard that there are groups that started to specifically always mispronounce words as a consequence of the maskilim starting pay attention to dikduk. Assuming that that's true, what would be the basis for that? Could it be justified as similar to Chaza"l's responses to the Tzedukim?
Additionally, according to the Or Zaru'a', we follow all accepted minhagim that don't involve a "nidnud aveira." Is there room to say that particularly and intentionally choosing incorrect pronunciations involves a nidnud aveira of lacking respect for Torah? (After all, "sh'ma' b'ni" is followed by "va'anakim l'garg'rosecha"! :-) I've noticed that there is a fairly prevalent "minhag" to implement the same incorrect pronunciations even during t'fillah (and even k'rias sh'ma'), which is clearly assur. If mispronunciation in learning stems from the same cause(s) as mispronunciation during t'fillah and k'rias sh'ma' (or even during learning Torah shebichsav, which we apparently hold to be unacceptable, as well, in accordance with R' David Kimchi and other sources [see also the incident with Yo'av in Bava Basra (21a-b), which illustrates the severity of teaching Tanach without proper dikduk]), it would seem to me that mispronunciation in learning Torah sheba'al peh is either a minhag containing a nidnud aveira (by association with mispronunciation in areas where it is assur), or not really a minhag at all (if it developed only through popular inattention).
Perhaps there is indeed no minhag at all, and that above mentioned talmidei chachamim were primarily concerned with the potential "mechezei k'yuhara" involved in publicly being medakdek in pronunciation of Torah sheba'al peh (as seems to be indicated in the above story with R'Hoffmann).
Thanks in advance for, b'ezras Hashem, providing clarity on this. Y'hilibi samim b'chukecha l'ma'an lo eivosh.