According to Rav Mesharshia that the velad of a Bas Pekua cannot be eaten, is the mother tomeh tumas ochlin ie since she can be eaten (I assume even if pregnant but maybe not) she is mekabel tumah or perhaps since the baby cannot be eaten if born, does this "non kosher" velad make the mother not eatable and the tuma goes away.?
Moishe Weissbraun, London, england
I presume that you intended to ask about the Vlad of a Ben Paku'ah which is what Rav Mesharshiya was speaking about, and not that of a Bas Peku'ah. However, it seems that Rav Mesharshiya's words are also relevant to the son of a Bas Peku'ah from a normal animal, as you wrote.
Your question is according to the Tana'im that hold that a Ben Paku'ah is Metamei while alive. Even though its Vlad is forbidden to be eaten, this is not a reason to remove the Tum'ah of the mother since she may be eaten. Actually, the Vlad can also be Metamei Tum'as Ochlin after its death, since it can be eaten by a Nochri, and this is sufficient for a food to be Metamei Tum'as Ochlin as is apparent from the Mishnah 117b.
Dear Rabbi Friedman,
thanks so much for your help.
May I assume that your reference to the mother being okay to eat applies even before the Vlad is born ie is there not a problem that she has in her an animal that when born will be ossur to eat (Choshshin lezera hoav) and therefore mother till birth would be Ever min Hachai ossur even to nochri.
Is there evidence that this is not the case?
Moishe Weissbraun, London
Yes the mother would be permissible. I have no direct proof for this (other than the fact that I do not see why the fact that the Vlad is forbidden should affect the mother) however there is a proof from the Gemara on 68a that says that the limb of the fetus that came out of the mother before Shechitah is forbidden even though the Mishnah states that the Ben Peku'ah itself is permitted in such a case. If so the mother is no worse even according to the opinion that Ubar Yerech Imo.
Dear Rav Freedman
Thank you so much for helping me. It is much appreciated.
Sorry to bother you but whilst I appreciate the ben pekua of this mother is allowed and the mother is also allowed that is when the mother is shechted ie she herself is not a ben pekuah and can only be eaten once shechted. Is that the same for a mother who herself is a bas pekuah and therefore normally she can be eaten. However now that she is pregnant with an ubar that would require shechita if born, is that the same since she has inside her an animal that cannot be eaten without shechitah if born whereas the case you quote, the mother is not a bas pekua and there is no shaalo of eating the mother until shechita ie only kosher after?
No bother at all. I hope I can be of help.
Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I was trying to bring a proof from the Ben Peku'ah itself not from its mother. The Ben Peku'ah does not need Shechitah, but it has a limb that does not have a Heter and needs a Shechitah, although it cannot have one, similar to the Vlad in the case of Rav Mesharshia that you discuss. Nevertheless, the Vlad itself is permitted even though the limb that came out before Shechitah is forbidden. Similarly I argue that the mother is permitted even though she has a Vlad inside her that lacks Shechitah.
Dear Rav Friedman,
Even though there may be slight diffrence ie in case of Ever it is outside and therefore could not asser the mother whereas in my case the Ubar is inside and is waiting to come out.
Is it the same?
The Mishnah (68a) discusses a case where the Vlad retracted its hand before Shechitah, in which case I believe it is the same as the case of Rav Mesharshia.