More Discussions for this daf
1. Ever Min ha'Chai 2. Biryah 3. נטל צפור שאין בו כזית ואכלו
4. רש"י ד"ה אלא אחת 5. חולין קב. ישב לאוכלה מתה

Y.M. Cymerman asked:

Ben Noach ossur ever min hachai beheima temeah but not ossur to a yisrael.But what about the rule of Leke midi d'yisrael shori...?

Y.M.Cymerman, London UK

The Kollel replies:

There are two reasons why we do not apply here the rule of "there is nothing that is permitted for a Yisrael but is forbidden for a Nochri." First, here the Ever Min ha'Chai of a Teme'ah is *also* forbidden to a Yisrael; it is just not forbidden because of the Isur of Ever Min ha'Chai, but because of the Isur of Behemah Teme'ah. Where the item is forbidden to a Yisrael for a different reason, it does not fall into the category of "Leika Midi...."

Second, the Gemara implies that when the general Isur applies to a Yisrael as well (in this case, the Isur of Ever Min ha'Chai), then we are not concerned that some of the details (such as Ever Min ha'Chai of a Behemah Teme'ah) apply to a Nochri and not to a Yisrael (other examples include Geneivas Pachos mi'Shaveh Perutah, and killing an Ubar).

D. Zupnik

Aharon Levine comments:

According to the second answer below, why does Rashi 102a D"H B'Mai need to explain that for a Nochri the issur of Ever Min HaChai also ceases from the moment the tahor animal is shechted even though the animal is still jerking around? Why don't we say that for a Nochri a tahor animal is just like a tamei animal that the issur of Ever Min HaChai continues to exist until the animal is completely dead, and the fact that the issur stops for a Yisroel immediately after the shechitah is just a detail that we don't need to worry about since the general issur of Ever Min HaChai applies to a Yisroel just like it applies to a Nochri?

The Kollel replies:

You are absoluutely correct. Actually, what you write is clearly stated in the Gemara in Sanhedrin. I stand corrected.

In addition, many Acharonim write the first answer.

D. Zupnik

Yitzchok Zirkind comments:

In general (according to many), the Rambam rules that we do *not* say "Leka Midi" - see Sedei Chemed, Ma'areches ha'Mem #166, Chasam Sofer YD 19.

With regard to the prohibition of stealing less than a Shavah Perutah for a Ben No'ach, which the Kollel mentioned in its previous response -- according to the Rambam the reason it is prohibited for a Ben No'ach is because there are no Shiurim for prohibitions that apply to a Ben No'ach (see Radvaz, Hilchos Melachim 9:9-10).

Kol Tuv,

Yitzchok Zirkind

The Kollel adds:

It is true that the Radvaz proposes that there are no Shiurim with regard to prohibitions of a Ben No'ach. An interesting point to note is that there are other ways of understanding the Rambam in Hilchos Melachim that you quoted. I have brought proofs that the Rambam's logic there is somewhat different. He maintains that the Ben No'ach is killed for stealing less than a Shavah Perutah because of "Azharasan Zo Hi Misasan"; that is, since Chatzi Shi'ur is prohibited in any case (according to Rebbi Yochanan, see Yoma 73b), a Ben No'ach will be killed for eating/stealing it, because any prohibition that he violates carries the death penalty.

M. Kornfeld

Y. Zirkind comments:

See Margoliyos ha'Yam Daf 59a: 33, who raises the question of the Lechem Mishneh, that if it is prohibited to steal Chatzi Shiur then why does the Gemara asks "Mi Ika Midi" with regard to stealing less than a Shavah Perutah. See also Magid Mishnah, Hilchos Gezeilah 1:2, who suggests that there *is* an amount that it is "permitted" for a Yid to steal. According to his reasoning, it is clear that a Nochri is not prohibited to steal only because of the prohibition of Chatzi Shiur, but rather there is no Shiur for theft at all by a Nochri.

Y. Zirkind