More Discussions for this daf
1. Did Shmuel rescind his opinion 2. "Bar Bei Rav" 3. Chatzer Inside a Chatzer, and an Outer Resident Didn't Join the Eruv
4. Shmuel Agrees with Rav that a Mavoy Requires Two Chatzeros and Two Batim
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERUVIN 74

Jeff Ram asked:

Dear Rabbi Kornfeld:

On daf 74a, Rav Elazar Bar Bei Rav went to Shmuel's hotel to inspect his living arrangements, and when Rav Elazar asked Shmuel: "aren't you the one who is medakdek in the mishna (about plural forms of the words chatzeros and batim) also describing the tzura of the mavuy and chatzer? and here, with one chatzer, you're matir the mavuy?". And the gemara says "ishtick", Shmuel was quiet. Now the gemara goes on and wants to know if Shmuel's silence meant that he had charata, or that he didn't change his mind, and maintained his opinion.

My question is: it seems to me that most (if not all) other places in Shas, "ishtik" means that the kashya was so strong, that the Amora had no answer, and had charata. Why does the gemara here want to find out whether the silence of Shmuel meant he maintained his opinion?

warm regards,

Jeff Ram,

Jerusalem

The Kollel replies:

Good question. You are correct that this seems to be the only place in Shas where the Gemara asks whether an Amora was Chozer after he was quiet in response to a question on his opinion.

However, whether or not "Ishtik" (or "Shasik") always means that the Amora was Chozer is the subject of a Machlokes Rishonim (cited by the ROSH in Beitzah 1:6). Some maintain that it sometimes means that the Amora had an answer to the question, but did not bother answering. That is apparently why the Gemara asks here whether Shmuel accepted the question or not. That is, if the question was not a strong question, "Ishtik" means that he just did not bother answering, and did not change his mind. If it is a strong question, then "Ishtik" presumably means that he changed his mind. Here, in the case of Shmuel, it is obviously not a strong question, because it was Shmuel himself who made both statements. The Gemara therefore thought that perhaps he was quiet because the question was not so strong and did not bother him.

Keep in touch!

-Mordecai