More Discussions for this daf
1. Man and Animal 2. Mechitzas Established on Shabbos 3. Mechitzah Shel Bnei Adam
4. Mechitzah for the third wall of the Sukah 5. Shavas b'Me'arah 6. A Human used as a Temporary Wall
7. What Happened to the Hukaf 8. מחיצה של בני אדם
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERUVIN 44

Avram Goldstein asks:

Good morning.

As this perek, particularly Rabban Gamliel, proceeds with heterim that I would not have expected - first that under the right ones conditions we can let you walk in an area that is hukaf l'dirah even if beyond your initial tchum Shabbat, and then with Nahardai's statement on 41b that if you have a tchum Shabbat heter, feel free to exploit the heter - today's daf goes further. First, we allow the construction without da'at of a human mechitza to enable people outside the tchum to get back in, very much like this Rabban Gamliel + Nahardai attitude of leniency, and we say that since it's people it's not an ohel arai issue...fine...

But then an amud bet the gemara allows it for actual carrying from reshut harabbim (Rashi is explicit that it's reshut harabim, not merely carmelit) to carry into reshut hayachid. I should probably be bothered by why this works in a reshut harrabim; after all raabim bok'im bo is a real issue from earlier in this masechet. Bothering me more though is that one of the guiding principles to an acceptable enclosure is that it has to be hukaf l'dirah. A karfef will only be allowed to carry in if it's hukaf l'dirah. And yet amud bet gives all these examples of carrying stuff amidst this accidental crowd, forming a hekef. Where's the l'dirah requirement?

Avram Goldstein, Israel

The Kollel replies:

1) The heter of taking the water from reshus harabim to reshus hayachid is because this is being done with a mechitzah of people.

2) Hukaf l'dirah is only required if the karfef is more than 70 amos plus by 70 amos plus (see Mishnah Eruvin 23a) which is not the case with the accidental crowd.

Wishing you a Gmar Chasimah Tovah

Dovid Bloom