More Discussions for this daf
1. The 5-Tefach Amos of the Mizbe'ach 2. The height of the mizbe'ach / curtains - 2a vs 4a 3. Measurement of the Mizbe'ach
4. Measurement of an Amah 5. 2 Amos, 1 Mizbe'ach 6. Tosfos DH Mutar
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERUVIN 4

Ben Berlin asked:

To whom it may concern:

Once again, let me thank you for a fantastic volume I saw and bought in English on Insights into the Daf of Pesachim.

I am reviewing Eiruvin which I never really finished in order to complete it for a Siyum Erev Pesach. Toward that end I have a few questions on Eruvin. May I use this resource to ask those questions as I get to them?

(a) Presuming yes, I want to make certain I understand the measurement of the five or six tefach on daf 3 and 4. Am I correct that an Amah is divided into either five or six equal parts and that is the discussion of the tefach Bar Chames or Bar Sheish?

(b) On Eiruvin 4B it discusses the measurements being oral laws and the scriptural basis being a support only.

Is that true for ALL the Torah Shebaal Peh? Whenever we see a dispute based on a pasuk or a Mina Hani Milei, is that for support only, or are we truly first discovering the law from such readings of the written pasuk?

I am quite confused on this fundamental point as the Rambam in his Introduction to the Talmud seems to say that there is NO DISPUTE as to the FACTS of the laws - those were known and agreed to by all, only dispute as to application and interpretation. When the discussion seems to be learning or discovering a law from a Pasuk, I don t understand that?

Can you help?

Thank you for all your fantastic work.

Ben Berlin, Norwalk CT

The Kollel replies:

(a) Yes, you are correct. However, the argument is not whether an Amah is always made up of five or six Tefachim, but rather in which topic of the Torah is it made up of five parts and in which topic is it made up of six parts.

(b) The primary derivations which are quoted in the Talmud are laws derived directly from the Pesukim of the Torah. This is almost always the case when the Gemara says "Mina Hani Mili," and is presumed the case unless there is evidence to the contrary or stated otherwise.

The Rambam you are referring to seemingly states that there is no dispute specifically regarding Halachos "l'Moshe mi'Sinai," such as the type of Halachah discussed in our Talmudic discussion in Eiruvin. However, this is also disputed by none other than Tosfos. Suffice it to say, that most derivations in Torah she'Bal Peh are directly derived.

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose