More Discussions for this daf
1. Purpose of Eiruv techumin 2. Trying to find a specific Gemora in Eruvin... 3. Moving dirt on Shabbos
4. Kikar Zo Alai
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERUVIN 30

Avrohom Meyer Kohn asked:

An eiruv extends one's walking distance by 2000 amos, which is around 4000 feet in the most chumrah opinion. A mile is 5280 fet, so the eiruv allows one to walk an extra 4/5 of a mile. People usually walk 4 miles an hour, so one mile is 15 minutes, and so the eruv allows us to walk a distance of around 12 minutes. That is not a whole lot. This entire perek and next perek is therefore dealing with what seems to be of little benefit to mankind. Please clarify. Many thanks.

Avrohom Meyer Kohn, Los Angeles, CA USA

The Kollel replies:

I'm not sure what you mean by 'of little benefit to mankind'. Imagine that someone wants to Daven, to hear Shofar on Rosh Hashanah or shake Lulav on Succos (to mention just a few possible scenarios where an Eiruv might be necessary), and the only Sidur, Shofar and Lulav to be found are in a town that is 3,000 Amos distance from his own. Isn't that beneficial? What difference does it make whether walking there takes twelve minutes or six hours (would six hours make you any happier?)?

And what's more, Chazal were not concerned about mankind, but about the many good Jews like you and me who might be inconvenienced by not being able to walk those extra two thousand Amos, such as one who wants to hear a D'rashah in the next town, or to escape from the Nochri tax-collector, as the Mishnah discusses on Daf 36b.

be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler

Doug Rabin asked:

Isn't it true D'iorisah the distance was 12 mil? Why was it shortened?

Doug Rabin

The Kollel replies:

According to some Rishonim min ha'Torah one is allowed to walk twelve Mil, as you write (though others maintain that this is the opinion of the Yerushalmi, but not the Bavli, which considers Techumin as purely mi'de'Rabbanan).

The opinion that you mention includes the Rambam, who writes that the Rabbanan diminished the T'chum from twelve Mil to two thousand Amos, and he adds 'because two thousand Amah is the Migrash of the city', with reference to the regular marked extremity of the city, as discussed in Parshas Mas'ei (see Rashi 35:2).

It seems to me that the Rabbanan issued this decree for one of two reasons. Either because they saw that people were generally treating Shabbos too lightly (as we find elsewhere with regard to other aspects of Shabbos); or because the twelve Mil T'chum was not marked, and people were therefore likely to walk beyond the T'chum, without realizing that they had done so. Consequently, they moved the T'chum to a point which is already marked and easy to keep track of. The wording of the Rambam suggests that this latter reason is the correct one.

be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.

Avrohom Meyer Kohn asks:

Dear Rabbi Chrysler,

Thank you for your comments. My question wasn't clear enough.

In a city like Los Angeles, where I live, one is allowed to walk from one end to the other on Shabbos. That is roughly (my best guess) 50 miles. So one can walk 50 miles on Shabbos if necessary. Once we meet the city limit, however, Chazal (to the opinion that eruv techumin is Mederabonon) provided a mechanism that allows us to walk an additional three quarters of a mile. In relation to the 50 miles already walked, this little extra might be just the little bit extra that I need to get to a shiur, or to hear the shofar, but relatively speaking, a mechanism for an additional 25 miles would seem to make more sense.

I recognize that in the times of Chazal, there weren't many cites as large as Los Angeles, but perhaps the mechanism could have been 50% of the diameter of the city that one lives in. That seems to make more sense to me.

Any further thoughts?

Kol tuv,

AMK

The Kollel replies:

What Chazal could might have done if ... is a matter of conjecture. What is clear is that they allowed two thousand Amos beyond the city limits. As you yourself admit, at that time it was a relatively reasonable distance which porbably benefited a lot of people.

Perhaps when Mashi'ach comes, he and his Beis-Din will give a bit more leeway, but (a) in the meantime, look for a Shi'ur closer home, and (b) don't bet on it.

be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler.