More Discussions for this daf
1. What are they being Mevatel 2. Becoming friendly with a gentile 3. Moreh Halachah in front of one's Rebbi
4. Siman 5. B'nei Nevi'im 6. Only A Problem of Using a Tree?
7. Contradiction in Rebbi Eliezer 8. Shmuel and Misah BiDei Shamayim
DAF DISCUSSIONS - ERUVIN 63

Jeff Ram asked:

Dear Rabbi Kornfeld:

We learn an eitza of Rava at the bottom of daf 63b that in a situationwhere there is one goy who refuses to rent his chatzer, the Jews shouldbe m'vatel their reshus to one of the ba'al haBatim in the mavuy. This would be effective in 2 areas; 1) allowing the Jew who remains the ba'alhaBayis to carry from his reshus (now all of the batim) into the chatzerand the mavuy (because the chumra doesn't operate when it's a goy livingwith only one Jew); and 2) allowing the Jews to carry kelim left in themavuy from bein haShmashos, within the mavuy.

Question 1: what exactly are they being m'vatel? and how is that effective?

Question 2: On the second benefit of Rava's eitza, that the Jews wouldbe able to carry kelim within the mavuy if there were there from beinhaShmashos. Since the goy refuses to rent his reshus, there is no eruvchatzeros. I thought we learned previously that in the absence of eruvchatzeros, and even without an shitufay meva'os the b'nei mavuy cancarry kelim left in it from bein haShmashos. Therefore, it seems thatthey didn't really gain this point.

I look forward to your help in clearing up these points for me.

warm regards,

Jeff Ram, Jerusalem

The Kollel replies:

(a) The residents of the Mavoy are Mevatel their rights in their Chatzeros and their rights in the Mavoy to one of the residents. That resident then becomes the sole owner, as it were, of the Chatzeros and the Mavoy, effectively making those areas into one Reshus. (Before the Bitul, each Chatzer had several owners, and the Mavoy was jointly owned by the members of all of the Chatzeros.)

As you wrote, their Bitul allows the resident to whom the Bitul was done to carry from his house into the Chatzer and Mavoy. The other residents may not carry from their houses, either because they were not Mevatel their houses (according to the Chachamim), or, according to the opinion (Rebbi Eliezer) who maintains that they were Mevatel their houses, because by carrying from their houses they will be revoking their Bitul.

THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING THIS SUGYA is the Gemara in Shabbos that Rashi refers us to. The Gemara explains that (according to Rebbi Elazar) when there is an Eruv in the Chatzeros of a Mavoy but no Shituf in the Mavoy, the Mavoy becomes "off limits." Although normally one can carry in a Chatzer or Mavoy or from one to another because of Rebbi Shimon, as you mentioned, in this case it is prohibited. The reason for this is that since they are permitted to bring utensils from their houses into the Chatzer due to their Eruv, they may carry those utensils into into the Mavoy as well, and even Rebbi Shimon agrees that one may not carry utensils of the houses in a Mavoy. (when there is no Shituf). Neither may they carry within the Mavoy itself, even utensils that were in the Mavoy when Shabbos came, for the same reason.

The RITVA explains that Rashi means to say, when they were Mevatel their rights in the Mavoy, they were also Mevatel their rights in their Chatzeros, thus effectively rendering their Eruvin meaningless, since they may no longer carry from their homes to the Chatzer (because doing so would be a revocation of their Bitul). What they gain by this is that they may carry within the Mavoy (and they may also carry from their Chatzeros into the Mavoy), since there is no fear that they will carry utensils from their house into the Mavoy (since their Eruv is no longer operative and they are not able to carry utensils from their houses into the Chatzer). They may also carry in the Mavoy utensils that the one who the Bitul was done for took into the Mavoy.

(b) Actually, the members of each Chatzer did make an Eruv among themselves, as Tosfos and the Rishonim point out. The gentile was in his own Chatzer, and therefore he did not prohibit the members of each Chatzer from making individual Eruvin in their own Chatzeros (to permit carrying from their homes into their Chatzer). He only prohibits them from making one Eruv among all the Chatzeros to permit carrying from the Chatzeros to the Mavoy.