More Discussions for this daf
1. Two sets of Malkus 2. Rava's praise for Rebbi Shimon 3. The Isur of Eating Kodshim Before Zerikah
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MAKOS 17

Anonymous asked:

I am tutoring a boy for his bar mitzvah this Rosh Chodesh Sivan. He plans on making a siyum on Maseches Makos which I am learning with him. We came across the statement of Rava that if a mother gives birth, she should give birth to someone like Rebbe Shimon." I learned the Rashi there with him. He then asked me why we don't say that about any of the other Tannaim and Amoraim (i.e. Rebbe Akiva, Rebbe Meir, Rebbe, Rav, Rebbe Yochanan, etc.). If you can please answer my question as soon as possible.

Thank You,

Anonymous,

Chicago, Illinois, United States

The Kollel replies:

I raised your question with Hagaon Rav Moshe Shapiro shlita, of Yerushalayim, who has addressed this subject many times in his talks. I summarize here his general response, in my own words and citing additional sources based on my understanding of his words.

I hope you find this helpful,

Mordecai Kornfeld

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The expression "One whose mother gives birth" alludes to one who has merited to reach the level of understanding known in Hebrew as "Binah." The application of Binah gives rise to, or "gives birth to" a person's logical conclusions and actions, which is why Binah is referred to as a "mother."

The theme that the expression "mother" is a metaphor for Binah appears often in the words of Chazal. See Targum to Mishlei 2:3 on the words "Ki Im l'Binah Sikra"; see also Nidah 45b where Chazal learn from the verse "va'Yiven... Es ha'Tzela" (Bereishis 2:22) that Hash-m gave an additional measure of "Binah" to women; the Gemara in Berachos 61a learns from the same verse that Hash-m built woman in a manner that would make it easier for her to give birth. See also Sotah 46a, where the Gemara shows that a person's offspring and his deeds can both be referred to as his "produce," which explains the application of the words "giving birth" to deeds.

The revelation of the hidden secrets of Torah she'bi'Chetav through the application of the 13 Midos of the Torah she'b'Al Peh, is called Binah. (This is the source for the expresssion, "Yesh Em l'Mikra," when one wants to express that the spelling of words in Torah she'bi'Chetav alludes to hidden concepts of Torah she'b'Al Peh; the "Em" is Binah.) It is the classic example of "Mevin Davar mi'Toch Davar," which is Rashi's translation for the word Binah (Shemos 31:3).

This revelation of Torah she'b'Al Peh was accomplished by no other to a greater extent than Rebbi Akiva, as we find in Menachos 29b (when Moshe Rabeinu himself admitted to Rebbi Akiva's greatness) and Bava Basra 12b (see Rashi DH mi'Shemei, there). In Gitin 67a we find that Rebbi Shimon said of his Torah, that he culled from the "choicest of the choice" teachings of his mentor, Rebbi Akiva. For this reason, Rebbi Shimon is the exemplar of a Tana who has attained Binah.

This is why we often find that the Amoraim praised Rebbi Shimon's reasoning: See Avodah Zarah 60b "Yanuchu l'Rebbi Shimon Berachos Al Rosho," end of Bava Metzia "Apiryon Namtei l'Rebbi Shimon," Berachos 9a, "Kedai Hu Rebbi Shimon Lismoch Alav..." (and a similar expression in Pesachim 51a).

This is Rava's intention in the Gemara you quoted as well. Rava meant that one who merits Binah, should merit the Binah of Rebbi Shimon. This is the characteristic of Rebbi Shimon that allowed him to reveal the secrets of the Torah in his Sefer ha'Zohar, during the 12 years that he spent in a cave with his son (Shabbos 30b). This is why Rebbi Shimon said of himself, "I have seen the Benei Aliyah and they are not many; if there are two, they are myself and my son!" (Sukah 45b).

May we too merit to understand some of the secrets of the holy Torah!

The Kollel adds:

Further to the above question, I found that the Sefer "Nifla'os b'Torasecha" discusses this in brief (Erech "Zohar"). He writes that the Gemara in Eruvin (13b) concludes that "it would have been better had man not been created than had he been created." This is difficult to understand, though, because the verse (Bereishis 1:26) states, "Na'aseh Adam b'Tzalmenu ki'Demuseinu," clearing implying that it was Hashem's will to create man, and thus how can the Gemara say that the creation of man was something undesirable?

The answer is alluded to by Rabeinu Shimon Lavi, the author of the Piyut about Rebbi Shimon bar Yochai, when he writes, "Na'aseh Adam Ne'emar ba'Avurcha." That is, for every other person, the Gemara in Eruvin applies -- it would have been better had he not been created. However, Rebbi Shimon bar Yochai was such a great Tzadik that his creation was indeed the most desirable, l'Chatchilah thing, and the creation of the entire world was worthwhile just so that a perfect Tzaddik like Rebbi Shimon bar Yochai would live. (See also Tosfos Eruvin 13b)

This is the meaning of the Gemara in Makos when it says that one should give birth to a son like Rebbi Shimon -- because a son like Rebbi Shimon is in the category of "No'ach Lo l'Adam she'Nivra," it was best that he was created. But if the son is not going to be like Rebbi Shimon, then he should not be born, because then he falls into the category of "No'ach Lo l'Adam she'Lo Nivra."

M. Kornfeld

MK:ys

Brian Babendir asked:

Why did Rava make the statement regarding women wanting their sons to be like R' Shimon, if he takes a dissenting view. One would figure a statement like this would only be made if there was agreement.

Brian Babendir, Skokie, USA

The Kollel replies:

Rava felt that the logical scrutiny and analysis of the Torah is more important to a person's growth than simply amassing Torah knowledge. He therefore put great emphasis on attaining a deeper understanding of the Mishnah, and on heeding the inner meaning of every word and letter of the Mishnah -- see Bava Basra 22b. In Yosef Da'as to Sotah 8b, Rav Benarza brings dozens of examples that demonstrate this point. (How does this reflect on Dafyomi study?)

This may be why Rava went out of his way to praise Rebbi Shimon even though he disagreed with Rebbi Shimon's opinion; Rebbi Shimon demonstrated how to dissect and analyze a verse to the utmost.

In addition, we may point out that an Amora certainly cannot "refute" the teaching of a Tana. It is a basic premise in Torah study that the Tana'im were on a much higher level than the Amora'im, and this is evident from many places in Shas. Rather, Rava meant to say that he had not yet merited to fully understand the teaching of Rebbi Shimon in this case.

Best wishes,

M. Kornfeld