More Discussions for this daf
1. More killers in Jordan 2. Possible verdicts 3. RITVA
4. Avimelech- Insights to the Daf 5. Omer Mutar and Shogeg
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MAKOS 9

Daniel asks:

This is addressing Insights Into The Daf Makos Daf 9:

(a) You said:

>>"One may ask a different question, though. Why was Avimelech considered clean of any sin? He should have been Chayav Misah for stealing (kidnapping) Sarah, despite the fact that it was an act of "Omer Mutar"! According to many commentaries, Shechem was Chayav Misah because he stole Dinah, the daughter of Yakov (and a Nochri is Chayav Misah for transgressing any of the seven Mitzvos of Bnei Noach, such as stealing). According to Rava, why was Avimelech not Chayav Misah for his "Omer Mutar" transgression of stealing?"<<

I don't see how kidnapping in this case was "Omer Mutar." I would think that the crime in this case was Mezid in the same way it was Mezid in the case Shechem?

(b) You said:

>> "The OR HA'CHAIM (Bereishis 20:5) and Aruch la'Ner answer that as long as Avimelech was taking Sarah to be his wife under the assumption that she was not married, he was not considered "Omer Mutar" and was not transgressing any prohibition of stealing at all. The Or ha'Chaim explains that Avimelech thought that he was bestowing great honor upon Sarah's family by taking her as his wife. Therefore, his act cannot be considered an act of stealing even in an "Omer Mutar" manner."<<

The OR HA'CHAIM, Aruch la'Ner and SI'ACH YITZCHAK seem to suggest there was no crime because Avimelech believed Sarah Wasn't married. What is the difference if the person kidnapped was married or not? Dinah wasn't married.

Also what difference does it make if Avimelech thought he was bestowing great honor upon Sarah's family by taking her as his wife? Avimelech should have known this was not the case and that Avraham had lied to him (as The CHIDUSHEI REFA'EL answers that Avimelech certainly was not innocent. Avraham told the people that Sarah was his sister because he feared that they would kill him if they knew that he was married to Sarah. Since the system of justice in that land dictated that the king was entitled to take any woman whom he desired and to dispose of her husband, Avimelech certainly should have suspected that Avraham was withholding information in order to protect himself. Since this was a reasonable assumption, Avimelech was considered "Omer Mutar" in his act of taking Sarah. Although his action was not entirely intentional, he certainly was not innocent).

Thank You

Daniel, Windsor, Canada

The Kollel replies:

The crucial difference the commentaries are making between the case of Shechem and the case of Avimelech is not whether she was married or not but the manner in which she was taken. When Sarah was discovered and Avimelech's followers escorted her to Avimelech's palace, they thought she was going to be one lucky woman. They also thought that her brother was going to be a very lucky and rich man, who would only end up benefiting from such an act. The average person would not see anything wrong in making someone the Queen, and her brother the King's brother-in-law.

In contrast, Shechem forcibly took Dinah and afflicted her upon doing so (Bereishis 34:2). This was clearly an act of force that mirrored the entire kidnapping of Dinah. Saying that Avimelech should have known this was not the case is certainly an opinion, as you quoted from the Chidushei Refael, but it is not a clear fact and it is not the opinion of the Or Ha'Chaim etc.

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose