More Discussions for this daf
1. The young idolator 2. Kares, etc 3. Mavetel Yetzer Hara
4. Achaz and Molech 5. Mentioning the Name of An Obsolete Idol 6. Achaz and Molech
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SANHEDRIN 63

David Goldman asks:

Here's an interesting issue. The prophecy of Yeshayahu 53 is said to have been made to King Achaz about his son to be, Chizkiyahu.

Achaz was 13 years older than Chizkiyahu. So the prophecy could only have been made when Achaz was 12 or 13.

However Achaz did not start ruling for his father Yosam until he was 16 (and then on his own at 20), so it means that Achaz was not even king yet at 13.

Plus when he tried giving Chizkiyahu to Moloch together with a second child he must have been 13-15, because Chizkiyahu was a baby. But how was such a thing possible? Can it be that Yosam allowed Achaz to behave this way without effect? Is it possible that it was done without anyone telling Yosam?! After all Achaz's wife protected the baby with salamander blood. And didn't Achaz notice it? Plus, if the second child did not have the protection of the salamander blood, then wasn't Achaz involved in murder?

David Goldman, USA

The Kollel replies:

According to the Seder ha'Doros, Achaz was 11 years old when he fathered Chizkiyahu, nine years before becoming king. What you write about Achaz ruling for his father when he was sixteen is incorrect. I think you confused this with Yosam ruling for his father Azaryah.

As for the problems you raise, why do you assume that somebody informed Yosam? Achaz was married and ran his own home and he would obviously have made sure that his father would not know about it. Why Achaz did not notice the salamander blood -- you have a good point. However, the question is largely a technical one, as we do not know what the blood of a salamander looks like (perhaps it is invisible).

And what you write about Achaz giving a second son to Molech, Rashi (Daf 63b) specifically writes that Achaz had only one son.

Kol Tuv,

Eliezer Chrysler

David asks:

I saw that a midrash explains that Yosam was sick and Achaz ruled for him for 4 years till the age of 20. Also, that there was a second son. In any event the scenario of the navi giving prophecies for a teenager of 12 or 13 years old who can even somehow get away with being involved in real avoda zara is amazing. How could someone like that be allowed to become king?! The prophecies of Yeshayahu never even refer to the case of Moloch. This reminds me that prophecies almost never even expressed a demand of Northern kings to return to Yerushalayim, which itself is amazing especially since the confusion that developed after the separation of the tribes reidentified the temple as a bama, which meant they could establish their own mikdash wherever they wanted.

The Kollel replies:

Shalom Rav,

I have difficulty in answering, as I don't understand the problem. Also, some of the facts you mention do not seem to conform with the facts as they appear in the mainstream commentaries, as I pointed out in my previous response. Nevertheless, here are a few ideas that will help place things in perspective:

For all we know, Achaz was 20 and Chizkiyahu 11 when the episode in question took place. Bear in mind that the Gemara in Sanhedrin sees fit to inform us that a son is not Chayav for handing over his father to Molech. Clearly, age is no consequence.

Avodah Zarah was rampant throughout the land during the era of kings, and many of the kings, if not most, were guilty of spreading it. In most cases, the people followed suite. Indeed, Chazal tell us, upon the return from Bavel, the urge to worship idols was so strong that the Sanhedrin was forced to seek somewhat supernatural means to abolish it.

The Nevi'im were sent to admonish the people for idolatry and for abusing the poor, the widows, and the orphans. For whatever reason, Hashem did not send them to rebuke the people for other sins. For example, the Tanach records that none of the kings removed the Bamos (which were forbidden once the Beis ha'Mikdash was built), yet none of the Nevi'im mentioned this in their prophecies.

In light of the above, I find nothing surprising about the actions of Achaz or about the fact that nobody tried to stop him from ascending the throne or from offering his son to Molech. In any event, admonishing a king in those times would have meant the death penalty.

B'Virchas Kol Tuv,

Eliezer Chrysler