More Discussions for this daf
1. Giving Tzedakah 2. The donation of Ifra Hurmiz 3. The Lifespan of Rebbi Yehoshua ben Levi
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA BASRA 10

Mordechai Schwimmer asked:

The Gemara relates the incident of Ifra Hurmiz sending money to R' Ami for distribution. After his refusal to accept it, she sent it to Rava.

Now, R' Ami was residing in Eretz Yisrael as is evident from Gittin 59b and Sanhedrin 17b. (Although R' Ami lived originally in Bavel as implied in Moed Katan 25a, it can be proven - based on that very passage and Tosafot to Menachot 36a D"H Amar Rabah - that he ascended to Israel long before the event related here.)

Furthermore, Eretz Yisrael was under Roman and not Persian dominion, as we find, in regard to R' Ami himself, in Bava Metzia 28b (as amended by Maharam ad loc). On the other hand, Bavel was under the rule of Shevur Malka (king of Persia), as we find, regarding Rava himself, in Chagiga 5b.

Two questions:

1) Why would Ifra Hurmiz prefer to send money to a country under the rule of another empire, rather than to Bavel under her son's governorship?

In fact, she had sent, some years before this event, a purse of Dinrei to Rav Yosef, who resided in Bavel, as related above in 8a.

2) Why did R' Ami refuse her donation?

Rashi to 11a D"H d'Lo, and Tosafot to 8a D"H Yasiv Rav Yosef, are of the opinion that the rulings in the two events are consistent, and that Shalom Malchus dictates compliance with the wishes of a gentile even where it will result in great merit to the donor. (Consequently, the Maharsha to 10b D"H d'Iboyi, who states that R' Ami did not have access to poor gentiles, needs elucidation.)

Although R' Ami himself, as noted, was not under Ifra Hurmiz's (and her son's) jurisdiction, and therefore could afford to refuse her donation, it is inconceivable that he would disregard Shalom Malchus where his actions might endanger the welfare of Babylonian Jewry.

Mordechai Schwimmer, Brooklyn, USA

The Kollel replies:

R' Matisyahu Shtrashon asks your question, and answers that the Gemara must be talking about a different Amora named "Rav Ami" who lived in Bavel. Similarly, the Maharsha seems to have had the text "Rebbi Avahu" instead of Rebbi Ami. The Maharsha who says that the refusal was due to Shalom Malchus does not seem so difficult. It makes sense that Jews who gave much of a royal grant to the town goyim would have also given some to their own people. Therefore Rava could give out the money to the town goyim, and have it appear as if the jews also got some money. However, Rebbi Avahu who had no goyim around could not create that illusion. He therefore could not take the money.

The Yavetz says that this indeed was Rebbi Ami, and that he did not have to take the money because he lived in Eretz Yisrael. It is possible that there would not be consequences to Babylonian Jewry, as it was probably understandable if someone were to refuse money from the leader of a different government, as this might cast doubt on his patriotism.

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose