More Discussions for this daf
1. The Shevu'ah of Shenayim Ochzin 2. Picking up a Metzi'ah 3. Owning all of it
4. Sumchus or the Rabanan 5. Tosfos DH Yachloku 6. Questions in Rashi
7. Case of Mekach U'Memkar 8. Rashi According to Maskanas ha'Gemara 9. Shenayim Ochzin b'Talis
10. "It is all mine" 11. Arguing over a lost object that was found 12. Causing a Shevu'as Shav in our Mishnah
13. Teaching that Re'iyah is not Koneh 14. Two versions 15. Comparing 3/4 Talis oath with devolved oath
16. Acquiring through seeing 17. Terms of Chazakah and ownership 18. בבא מציעא ב. תד"ה בראיה - הבטה בהפקר

T. Bacon asked:

1) Why would you take a shvua if their is no drara d'memona but not take a shvua if their ~is~ drara d'memona?

2) At the top of daf 3 we conclude that sumchus thinks the shvua of our mishna is a shvua d'rabonon, does this imply that rabanan think it is a shvua d'oraysa? if so, what kind of shvua is it? if it's a shvua of mb"m then according to the rabanan would it have all the technical requirements of a mb"m like 2 kesef?


T. Bacon, New York, USA

The Kollel replies:

1) This is the essence of the Gemara's question "v'Lav Kal v'Chomer...".

2) Rebbi Chiya (3a) entertained the possibility that it was Modeh b'Miktzas and the Gemara refutes it. Althogh even according to the Rabanan it is a Shevu'ah d'Rabanan, the Gemara thought that according to the Rabanan it related to the P'sak of Chalukah, i.e. that it was imperative to the P'sak (see Rashi 2b DH Alav ha'Ra'ayah). Whereas according to Sumchus the Gemara was saying that although the P'sak of "Yachloku" does not require a Shevu'ah any more than any other Mamon ha'Mutal b'Safek according to Sumchos, however, in this case there was a new Shevu'ah (i.e. a localized Gezeirah).

D. Zupnik

T. Bacon asks:

Yes, but what was the hava amina?


The Kollel replies:

The Havah Amina is difficult. There are those Achronim who say that the Havah Amina is that we should say that there is no Shevu'ah since he is Chashud a'Mamona. The Shitah Mekubetzes cites a Gilyon who says that the Metaretz maintained that when the real owner is losing half, we will not further cause him to swear. However, there are those who say that at this point Rashi explains "Derara" like Tosefos.

D. Zupnik