More Discussions for this daf
1. drashas 2. Follow up to "yud" 3. Kal v'Chomer
4. Nidrei Na'arah ha'Me'orasah 5. Amah Ivriah Going Out From Her Master 6. Darshening the Yud of Ein
7. Na'arah Who is Mekadesh Herself 8. Going Free with Signs of Maturity 9. אין vs אן two part question
10. Saying the kal v'chomer 11. היו"ד באין
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KIDUSHIN 4

jesse rasowsky asked:

Question:

On Kidushin 4b, on what basis does Rav Ashi undermine the kal v'chomer from Amah Ivriya to Isha?

Suggested answer #1:

1. The whole crux of why money effects the acquisition of an Amah Ivriya is based on a Sibah, particular to Amah Ivriya, namely, that money effects her Yetziah.

2. Since this is not relevant to an Isha, you cannot cavalierly apply a kal v'chomer from one to the other.

Suggested answer #2:

1. The whole kal v'chomer is based on the fact that Beah effects the acquisition of an Isha, but not an Amah Ivriya. Whence, an Isha is "lighter" (easier to transact) than an Amah Ivriya.

2. Rav Ashi refutes this by saying there is a Tokef in the wrong direction. That is, by Yetziah, money is able to transact an Amah Ivriya but not an Isha.

3. Therefore, the kal v'chomer falls away because it is no longer evident that the Amah Ivriya is "stronger" (harder to transact) than the Isha. You cannot learn a kal v'chomer between two scenarios if neither one is strictly kal or strictly chamur.

What do you think?

jesse rasowsky, jerusalem, israel

The Kollel replies:

I find the basis for your first answer, that the reason an Amah may be acquired with money is because she goes free with money, slightly troublesome. Surely the fact that an Amah is acquired with money is not dependent on or affected by the way an Amah is freed.

Tosfos DH me'Ikara learns like your second answer. However Rashi DH she'Kein learns that the fact that an Amah Ivriyah goes out with money shows us that money is Chashuv, significant, to the acquisition of an Amah Ivriyah. If so we cannot learn Ishah from Amah. This is in fact similar to your first explanation!

Dov Freedman