More Discussions for this daf
1. Questions from Daf 13-21 2. R Shimon Ben Gamliel "Ma'aseh Rav" 3. Mistake in Question
4. Chashmona'im 5. Yonah's Kikoyon 6. Rav Huna and Rav Chisda
7. Time Chanukah Lights Must Burn 8. Miracle of Oil 9. The Parei ha'Chag of Sukkos and the Chanukah lights
10. Ner Ish u'Beiso 11. Mehadrin and Pirsum Nes 12. Mehadrin
13. Insights on the Daf - Vilna Gaon on the Rif 14. Ma'alin ba'Kodesh 15. Galus Chashmonaim?
16. The eight day miracle 17. The argument between Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel how to light the Chanukah lights 18. Hillel and Shamai
19. How to light the Chanukah candles: 20. Neros After 30 Minutes 21. Next year...
22. Eight days of Chanukah 23. שיטת אביי 24. טעמי ב"ש וב"ה
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 21

Stuart Plaskow asks:

Dear Rabbi Kornfeld,

The famous passage in Massechet Shabbos "MY Chanukah'' tells us about Beis Hillel re. ""Going up in holiness & NOT decreasing''. Actually this is taken from Menachos 99b where we are told about the bread from the silver antechamber Table is moved to the golden Sanctuary Table. This illustrates the first half of the rule, that ''In sacred matters we ascend''. - That is perfectly understandable. The problem arises with the INCREASE in lights each evening. Are we saying that 5 lights as opposed to 4 lights signifies MORE 'Kedusha''??

Wishing you Chanuka Sameach.

Kol Tuv

Stuart Plaskow

The Kollel replies:

Dear Stuart,

That is a good question. Allow me, though, to add to your question. The very Gemara that invokes the concept of Ma'alin b'Kodesh, that you cite (Menachos 99), requires investigation. There were two tables in the Ulam for the Lechem haPanim, one gold and one silver. The implication of the Gemara and Rashi is that one of the tables had to be gold - the one that they put the Lechem on after taking it off the Shulchan - because otherwise it would be in violation of Ein Moridin b'Kodesh because they would be going from the gold of the Shulchan to silver of the outside table. The other table can be silver because that is an Aliyah in Kodesh. This implies that if the other table were also gold, then taking the Lechem into the Heichal would not be an Aliyah but it would not be a Yeridah either. But I would have thought that regardless of what the tables are made from - gold or silver - taking the Lechem inside would be an Aliyah because you are going into a more Kodesh area - the Heichal versus the Ulam - and you are putting it on a more Kodesh object - the Shulchan Shel Moshe versus one of the regular tables. Conversely taking the Lechem out would always be a Yeridah. However, it seems that Ma'alin and Mordin is only measured by whether it is gold or silver. What makes gold more Kadosh than silver? Rather, it seems that Ma'alin and Moridin here has to do with Kavod. Gold is more Mechubad than silver.

Applying this to the Menorah of Chanukah. Even though there is nothing more Kadosh about a Menorah with five lights versus one with four lights, but increasing the number of lights each night is an expression of Kavod for the Mitzvah. Perhaps this is what Ma'alin b'Kodesh means here.

I think this idea can be seen clearly from another Gemara that invokes the concept of Ma'alin b'Kodesh. The Gemara in Menachos (39a) says that one should begin wrapping with a white thread and then continue with a blue thread (Techeles) and then finish off with white. If one starts with white and finishes with blue they are in violation of Ein Moridin b'Kodesh. But we could ask, what makes white threads more Kadosh than blue threads? The answer is that it is not more Kadosh but it is more prominent. What makes white more prominent than blue? The answer given in the Gemara is that white threads are mentioned before blue threads in the Pasuk (b'Midbar 15:38) (see Rashi there). Therefore, we see once again that the concept of Ma'alin b'Kodesh does not always refer to the differnce in Kedushah between the two things being compared.

Kol Tuv,

Yonasan Sigler

This is not a Psak Halachah