The Gemora teaches that if someone causes another to be punished, he will not join the mechitza of HKB"H. Moshe Rabeinu and Aharon were participants in Paro's punishment, and rather directly so (Shmos 7:19, 8:12, 9:10 etc). Does it make sense to say they are excluded from the mechitza of HKB"H??
Avrohom Meyer Kohn, Los Angeles, Ca
The Iyun Yaakov explains that the Gemara is only referring to people that *request* punishments for others who would not otherwise be punished, not people who carry out punishments.
All the best,
Yaakov Montrose
Dear Yaakov,
I think your explanation disagrees with the very first example of the Gemora itself, which tried to prove its point from the punishment of Achav after the murder of Novos. It's hard to imagine anyone "who would anyway be punished" more than Achov, and yet the Gemora felt that whoever causes his punishment would be out of Hashem's mechitza.
Kol tuv,
AMK
Moshe Rabbeinu also specifically asked that Korach be punished. I can't imagine that the gemara could have meant a case like that in which Moshe Rabbeinu was doing so l'toeles and to teach everyone a lesson. I would think that such a case is a Kiddush hashem.
Gmar Chasima Tova,
Sam Kosofsky
When I said above "for people who otherwise would not be punished", I did not mean people who were free of sin. I meant people who would otherwise not be punished via the prosecution of this person. The story of Achav is consistent with the Iyun Yakov's position, as the Pasuk clearly indicates that it was the Ruach of Navos which decided upon the type of punishment which should be given to Achav, the way it would unfold, and it carried out the punishment as well. This is much different than a Tzadik who is told by Hashem to carry out a certain punishment.
When I saw the Iyun Yaakov, I immediately thought about Korach as well (as, I'm sure, did the Iyun Yaakov). I understood that the difference between Korach and the principle set forward by the Iyun Yakov is that Moshe Rabeinu did not directly daven that they should be punished. Rather, he said that (Bamidbar 16:28-31) "If like all people these people will die...Hashem did not send me. If Hashem will make an opening in the ground...and then you will know that these people fought with Hashem." Moshe Rabeinu's statement was not even directly related to punishing Korach, rather to whether Hashem sent him or not, and whether or not Korach was essentially fighting Hashem. If they were Tzadikim, they would not be punished. Such a statement is not the same as directly davening that someone should die.
Gmar Chasimah Tovah to all,
Yaakov Montrose