More Discussions for this daf
1. A later Beis Din repealing the Gezeirah of an earlier Beis Din 2. Tiltul Min ha'Tzad 3. "Eli" A pestle
4. Muktzeh 5. What defines a Kli she'Melachto l'Isur? 6. Origin of Muktzeh
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 123

hg asks:

What were the laws of muktzeh before Nechemiah?

Who discusses the status?

Where is this "The CHASAM SOFER (introduction to Mahadura Tinyana on Beitzah)"? I cound not find in my shul's edition.

hg, ny usa

The Kollel replies:

(Please forgive the delay in response. Technical problems prevented the mailing of a number of responses.)

1) I am forwarding replies to a similar question that I wrote a while ago (see below). However, since I feel that some of the material presented there may not be so clear, I will attempt to summarise the relevant points in a concise fashion.

2) A clear source concerning the laws of Muktzeh before Nechemyah is Shabbos 30b, where we learn that when David ha'Melech died on Shabbos, his son, Shlomo, asked in the Beis Midrash what to do with the corpse and was told that a loaf of bread or a baby could be placed upon it, which would permit it to be carried. One sees from there that a corpse was considered Muktzeh in the time of David ha'Melech.

3) The Shulchan Aruch ha'Rav (by the Ba'al ha'Tanya), Orach Chaim 308:17, writes that this prohibtion may have existed even before the time of David.

4) Rav Chaim Greineman shlit'a, in Chidushim u'Vi'urim (Shabbos 12:11), adds that the above ancient enactment included also the prohibition against moving stones.

5) The Aruch ha'Shulchan (Orach Chaim, beginning of 308), writes at length concerning the history of the prohibition of Muktzeh and states that the root of the prohibition was given to Moshe Rabeinu at Har Sinai. I would certainly recommend learning the Aruch ha'Shulchan there.

6) The Chasam Sofer is found in the editions of the Chidushei Chasam Sofer on Shas published by the Chasam Sofer Institute, in the beginning of Maseches Beitzah. The Chasam Sofer does not discuss the historical development but he talks at length about what aspects of Muktzeh are mid'Oraisa and what are d'Rabanan. He writes that eating Muktzeh can be d'Oraisa, as opposed to carrying Muktzeh which is d'Rabanan. He cites Beitzah 2b, where Rabah derives from Shemos 16:5 that if the meal of Shabbos or Yom Tov is not prepared the day before, it is considered Muktzeh d'Oraisa.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

shmuel siegel asks:

If Mukzoh was instituted by Nehemiah, what is its relevance to Dovid Hamelech?

shmuel siegel, Jerusalem, Israel

The Kollel replies:

1. The law instituted by Nechemyah, and mentioned in the Gemara (Shabbos 123b) is very different from that which David ha'Melech and Shlomo ha'Melech instituted. The law of Nechemyah related specifically to Muktzah connected with different utensils, or Kelim: Kli she'Melachto l'Isur, and Kli she'Melachto l'Heter, etc. In contrast the law mentioned here (Shabbos 30b) that a corpse is Muktzah is a more basic law. The corpse cannot be buried on Shabbos (because of the prohibiton against digging a hole in the earth, "Chofer"); since there is nothing that can be done with the corpse on Shabbos, it follows that it is Muktzah.

2. The word "Muktzah" means that a person was "Maktzeh Da'ato" -- he removed his attention from the object and therefore it is as if it has been set aside from being used and therefore may not be moved on Shabbos. This may be similar to the Gemara later (45a) that says that the only type of Muktzah to which Rebbi Shimon agrees is that of "Gerogeros v'Tzimukim." Since the person put his dried figs and raisins on the roof, he showed that he has placed them totally out of his attention and it follows that even according to Rebbi Shimon they are Muktzah because there is nothing that can be done with them.

3. There is an opinion in the Gemara in Pesachim (47b) that handling Muktzah is prohibited mid'Oraisa. I am not necessarily claiming that the law of the corpse here in Shabbos (30b) is also mid'Oraisa, but it certainly is an earlier enactment of Muktzah which predates the Gezeirah of Nechemyah. Nechemyah's Gezeirah was instituted because the people were making light of Shabbos, so a new law was instituted to make a clear differrence between Shabbos and the weekday, as the Rambam writes (Hilchos Shabbos 24:12-13). In contrast the law that a corpse is Muktzah on Shabbos is based on the fact that nothing can be done with it on Shabbos and thus a person puts it aside and has no intention to touch it.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom