More Discussions for this daf
1. Mehalech k'Omed 2. Ben Azai 3. Ramban and Meleches Machsheves
4. The hand of a person is considered 4 by 4 5. water on water 6. Akirah and Hanachah
7. Akirah from 4 x 4 8. Reshus Ha'Yachid Mekureh 9. Akirah on Water
10. עקירה והנחה 11. רש״י ד״ה דרך סטיו ורש״י דף ז' ד״ה בין העמודים

Yisroel Dovid Berger asks:

Meseches shabbos daf 5b

The gemara is looking for a sevara as to the reason why Ben azai says that one who takes out an object from a store to a reshus harabim through the stav area is patur & the chachomim say he is liable. The gemara gives the sevara of Ben azai as being "mehalach k'omeid ", walking is like standing. My question is - why not suggest that he holds like rabbi akiva (I believe they had a relationship but I don't recall) who says on daf 4a "keluta k'mi shehuncha". So if the object was in the airspace of the stav it's a reason why he should be patur. We don't need a new sevara of mehalach k'omeid? I will suggest a possible solution and I am writing to ask if you think it is correct. Later on this sugya on 6a rabbi yochanan says that Ben azai is modeh that a zorek is chayuv, and the gemara brings a beraisa that clearly says Ben azai agrees a zorek through the stav is chayuv. So maybe the gemara does not want to say a sevara of kelutah k'k'mi shehuncha to explain why walking the object through is patur, because we see in the beraisa that Ben azai clearly doesn't hold of kelutah, as evidenced by the fact that he says a zorek through the stav is chayuv. (I see tosafos on 5b bishlama talks about this a little, but I don't understand what it is saying.)


Yisroel Dovid Berger

Lakewood NJ

The Kollel replies:

Your solution is correct.

However, your question, applying Kelutah to someone walking (as opposed to being in the air) might not be true, since new movement is caused by the holder every moment, and cannot be called Hunchah.

All the best,

Reuven Weiner