More Discussions for this daf
1. Translations of Kisvei Kodesh 2. query re sources 3. Reading grammar books and lexicons on Shabbos
4. Saving a Samartian Torah 5. Is there a Mitzva of Agmas Nefesh on Yom Kippur 6. Samaritan Torah
7. Beraisa of R. Hamnuna
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHABBOS 115

Gedalliah asked:

B"H Rabbi's,

(a) In Shabbos 115 where it is talking about whether or not translations may be
written and read, are all the opinions expressed relating to the same catagory
of public reading (and writing for the purpose of) , or are some dealing with
private reading ?

(b) When R. Gamliel deposited the translation of Iyov, how is it explained:

1)-It was forbidden to have in the first place and it was used as builder
filler material(not holy)

2)-It was forbidden to have in the first place and it was buried as a sign of
respect(holy)

3)-It was permitted to have but this copy was damaged and unreadable so it was
used as filler material (not holy)

4)-It was permitted to have but this copy was damaged and unreadable so it was
buried as a sign of respect (holy)

5)-something else?

(c) When R.Yose b.R.Yehudah says that a trough of clay was overturned on it, is
that another way of saying the same exact thing? That is, would we say that a
trough of clay is bricks and mortar ( they both started out as a trough of
clay). If so, did it get a proper earth burial with the bricks or does it mean
it was treated with less respect?

Thanks and Gratitude,

Gedaliah

The Kollel replies:

(a) The Gemara seems to be referring to even private reading; this is also implied by the text of the Mishnah in Megilah (cited here by Rashi) which states that it is not permitted to write them at all in a foreign language.

(b) From the words of Rava later in the Sugya it seems that the translation of Iyov mentioned in the Gemara was holy, and they deposited in such a way that they would not be erasing its writing but that it would disintegrate by itself. This was done out of respect for the scroll.

(c) From the words of Rava, it seems that according to Raban Gamliel it was holy and they deposited beneath the building but they did not pour on it clay, lest it erase the writing. Rebbi Yosi bar'Rebbi Yehudah is more lenient and permits pouring clay over it, even though doing so may erase the writing. According to Rava's conclusion, however, Rebbi Yosi bar'Rebbi Yehudah was more stringent than Raban Gamliel and turned over a trough of clay (which at the time did not contain any clay) on it, but would not permit it to be deposited beneath the building.

M. KORNFELD

The Kollel adds:

The Mishna states that all Kisvei ha'Kodesh must be saved from fire whether they are read or not, even written in any language. This follows the opinion of Chachamim that Sefarim may be written in other

languages.

We see that even those Sefarim that are not read, meaning Kesuvim that are not read publicly may be saved even in translation. It would follow that according to Rabbi Shimon Ben Gamliel who holds that only Greek translation is permitted there would be no distinction between public and private readings.

All the Best

Ilan Segal