More Discussions for this daf
1. Music 2. Listening to music 3. Outline of the Daf - The case of a boat
4. Potted Plant 5. Can an abusive husband be a Tzadik? 6. Mar Ukva and Geniva
7. קרא נמי יהיב סימנא
DAF DISCUSSIONS - GITIN 7

Aryeh Leibowitz asks:

Again, Yasher koach on your great site. I might be mistaken, but it appears to me that an error was made.

In Inights on the Daf to Gittin 7a you write: Geniva, who was oppressing Mar Ukva, was a member of the family of the Reish Galusa. We find elsewhere that the Reish Galusa and his confidants often used their power to attempt to force others to fulfill their whims. The Gemara records the incident with Mar Ukva and Geniva as an example of the effects of being "Matil Eimah Yeseirah," of placing undue fear in one's home.

What is the source that Geniva was from the family of the Reish Galusa? In fact, Mar Ukva WAS the Reish Galusa himself. Its hard to imagine that this is a sugya about Geneiva using his political power to force Mar Ukva. It sounds a lot more like Mar Ukva is wondering if he should use HIS political connections to harm Geneiva.

thanks

Aryeh Leibowitz

The Kollel replies:

You are right that Mar Ukva was the Reish Galusa, but it seems that Geniva challenged his position and did not accept his leadership. If the Reish Galusa would have used his own power he himself would have taken action against Geniva, but either Mar Ukva was not yet Reish Galusa or Rebbi Elazar did not wish that he impose his authority against Geniva, which would be akin to "placing undue fear in one's home."

I'm not sure where the Daf Insights concluded that Geniva was related to the Reish Galusa. It's possible that this was why he was challenging Mar Ukva's authority, but more likely he wanted the rabbis to be the leaders and authorities, as he himself stated (Gittin 62a).

Yoel Domb

Aryeh Leibowitz asks:

Thank you for the quick reply.

I understood this sugyah differently than you. I did not think that this is sugya of "undue fear int he home," rather this sugya appears because its a case of Sirtut, which had recently been discussed.

Mar Ukva was not going to simply use his authority, he was going to be moser Geneiva to the secular authorities (This sugya is one of the main sugyas quoted in regards to mesirah).

Mar Ukva as the Reish Galusa had the ability to be moser him, and R. Elazar advised him not.

Also it should be noted that Mar Ukva was not simply an Exliarch, he was also Talmid chaham and a leading Amora. Geneiva, also a talmid chacham, was a baal machlokes, as Rav Huna and Rav Chisda state twice later in the mesechta.

I think that the Insights might have just mistaken Mar Ukva for Geneiva.

Aryeh Leibowitz

The Kollel replies:

I agree that it is possible that there is an error regarding Geniva who was not necessarily a member of the Exilarch's family as opposed to Mar Zutra, and that the Insights imply that Mar Zutra was not the Exilarch or part of the family. We will try to correct that in the Insights.

Nonetheless, "placing undue fear in one's home" is the subject of the Sugya and it may be that this is why Daf Insights concluded that Mar Zutra and Geniva were related (one's home = one's family). The word "Sirtet" appears incidentally but the main topic is the dispute between two people which later leads to serious consequences.

Yoel Domb