More Discussions for this daf
1. Teaching one's daughter "Tiflus" 2. Echad 3. Erasing the Parshas Sotah
4. Does Kesivah of Parshas Sotah Need to be Lishma 5. Stam Mishnah is Rebbi Meir 6. Kankantom
7. Pachda Tzamis, Bi'asusa Merafya 8. Teida sheha'Zechus Tolah Lah 9. Teaching Your Daughter Torah
10. Tiflus
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SOTAH 20

Bernard Kahan asks:

A groyser shkoyach for the recent reply to my question on Megilah 13 on Stam Yeynom. Much Appreciated!

I have another Heorah which I wonder what the Kolel thinks, based on the Gemora in Sotah Daf 24a, after the Mishnah towards the bottom.

I always wondered about the Klal of Stam Mishna Kerav Meir a very big Yesod and Klal I think the above Gemoro is a possible Mekor for this Klal. In the Shakla Vetarya it comes out that Rav Meir was Zoycheh to be Meshamesh 2 Tanaim: Rav Akiva and Rav Yishmoel. Rashi uses in DH ASOH a Loshon of HAMISHNAYOS STUMOS etc. Now in the context, that does not mean Stam Mishna Kerav Meir. But if you are Me'ayin in the words of the Gemoro and the Rashis on the Sugya do you think I could be right?

Kol Tuv and Gut Voch

Boruch Kahan London, london u.k.

The Kollel replies:

I do not think that Rashi Sotah 20a DH Osoh is referring to the Klal of "Stam Mishnah Rebbi Meir". Rather Rashi is explaining the difference between the way Rebbi Meir learned by Rebbi Yishmael and the way he learned by Rebbi Akiva. In fact the Gemara says that to start off with Rebbi Meir wanted to learn by Rebbi Akiva but he did not manage with his way of learning because Rebbi Akiva always explained how you could say a Sevarah which is the opposite of the Halachic conclusion. It seems that Rebbi Meir was not yet ready for this style of learning so he went instead to Rebbi Yishmael who taught him in a simpler way. Here he simply learned what the Mishnah said. Rashi DH Osoh writes that he learned "ha'Mishnayos Sesumos" - I understand that this means he learned the Mishnayos without going into the reasoning behind them, but rather what they stated in the way they had been passed down from Rebbi to Rebbi until they reached Rebbi Yishmael. Rebbi Meir was now ready to go back to study under Rebbi Akiva, who explained to him the reasons for each Mishnah, together with the source; how to understand how each Mishnah fits in with others and how to approach new questions which were being asked in the Beis Midrash, and to which existing Mishnah to compare these new cases.

In contrast the rule of "Stam Mishnah Rebbi Meir" is a Klal that Rebbi Yehudah ha'Nasi applied when he compiled the Mishnah in times subsequent to Rebbi Meir. Because he usually wanted to rule according to Rebbi Meir, he therefore cited his opinion in the Mishnah without stating the source because there is another rule: "Halachah k'Stam Mishnah" (see Shabbos 46a) and frequently the Halachah follows an anonymous Mishnah - so the Halachah usually follows Rebbi Meir.

I may have not made it so clear in the above that the word "Stam" in "Stam Mishnah Rebbi Meir" and the word "Sesumos" mentioned by Rashi here, do of course possess the same root. However the former means "anonymous", while the latter means "plain, without explanation".

Zie Gezunt

Dovid Bloom