More Discussions for this daf
1. Order of the Sotah testing process 2. Implication that Kefifa Mitzris is not fit to be Kli Shares 3. Erasing Megilas Sotah
4. Definition of a Saris 5. Mizbeach in the North of the Azarah 6. Moses Yeled, with Kol Na'ar.
7. מחיקת מגילת סוטה 8. הלכה עוקבת מקרא
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SOTAH 14

Daniel Fishman asked:

The mishna distinguished between minchat sota and menachos in general in that menachos in general are brought in a "kli shareit" in their beginning an end but a minchat sota is brought in the beggining with kefifa hamitzrit(or a wooden vessel) but in its end a kli shareit is used.The Gemara asked urimnhu brought a baraisa that holds baskets of silver and gold may be used for the beggining of regular menachot so its a stira to the mishna and so Rav Pappa answered eima say the mishna means vessels that are fit to be a kli shareit may be used which is what the mishna meant when it stated "kli shareit" for the beggining.But the Gemara then makes an implication that kefifa hamitzrit(or a wooden vessel) is unfit to be a kli shareit and therefore says our mishna must be like Rebbi no reb yosi bar yehuda who validated a kli shareit fashioned from wood. So our mishna must be like Rebbe who invalidates a kli shareit from wood since our mishna implies a wooden vessel is unfit to be a kli shareit since the mishna stated that regular menachot their beggining and end are with kli shareit (which we emended to that there beggining can be something that is merely fit to become a kli shareit) and also stated that the mincha of a sota its beggining is brought with a kefifa hamitzrit(or any wooden vessel) and end with kli shareit.So the implication the Gemara made that a kefifa hamitzrit is unfit was based on the fact there must be a diffrence between a regular mincha and minchat sota if a regular minchas's beggining is brought with something that can be fit to be a kli shaeit than that which is brought at the beggining for a minchat sota must be not fit to be a kli shareit and thus the gemara implied a kefifa mitzrit (or any wooden vessel)is not fit to be a kli shareit so our Mishna must be like Rebbi who invalidates a kli shareit made from wood and not like R' Yose bar Yehuda who validates a kli shareit made from wood.

My difficulty is that why cant (in the Gemara hava amina) it even be like R' Yose bar yehuda who validates a kli shareit made from wood since according to the mishna its lav dafka that a kefifa hamitzrit(or any other wooden vessel that its unfit to be a kli shareit because we can still have a difference between a regular mincha and minchat sotah in our mishna even with holding a kefifa mitzrit can be fit to be a kli shareit in that a minchat sota is brought in the beggining with a kefifa hamitzrit specifically because thats just how its brought in contrast to a regular mincha which its beggining and end is brought with a "kli shareit" or according to Rav Pappa its beggining is brought with something that's fit to become a kli shareit but it can be anything that's fit to become a kli shareit.This should not imply a kefifa hamitzrit(or any wooden vessel) can not be fit for a kli shareit because why cant we say a kefifa mitsrit can be fit to become a kli shareit just its specifically brought at the beggining by minchat sota which in itself is a distinction between a regular mincha and minchat sota.So why cant are mishna really be like Reb Yosi bar yehuda who validates a kli shareit made from wood because- i dont understand the implication the Gemara made that a kefifa mitzrit is unfit to be a kli shareit based on the fact that by regular minchas there begginings are brought with things that may be fit to be a kli shareit???

I tried to make my question clear eventhough its confusing.Thankyou for assisting me.

Daniel Fishman, Lawrence, New York

The Kollel replies:

Dear Daniel,

Your question is understood. You suggest a Chiluk between a regular Minchah and a Minchas Sotah.

But the Mishnah, when comparing a regular Minchah and a Sotah's Minchah, brings only opposites: with oil - without; wheat - barley; and therefore also Kli Shares or even fit for Kli Shares which is opposite of Kefifa Mitzris which is not a Kli Shares. (Read the Mishnah yourself.) The Gemara therefore explains who holds Kefifa is not a Kli Shares and why.

All the best,

Reuven Weiner