More Discussions for this daf
1. The statement of Rebbi Chanina mi'Sura 2. Zivugim 3. sotah
4. Second Marriage 5. Kinuy b'Zman ha'Zeh 6. Rashi DH Makneh Lah Al Pi Shenayim
7. One Ed by Sotah Vadai 8. What if Husband Dies? 9. Shmuel bar Rav Yitzach amar Resh Lokish
10. Kinui Without Eidim 11. Laws of Sotah 12. Zivug Rishon and Zivug Sheni
13. Finding the right one 14. Sotah 15. Zivug Rishon and Sheni
16. Different factors for a Sotah 17. V'Ed Ein Bah 18. 7 Nations
19. נאמנות הבעל לטומאה
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SOTAH 2

H David Levine asks:

Recalling from the end of Kiddushin, a rasha wed to a tsadekis is fated to become a tsadik, whereas a tsadik wed to a rashois is fated otherwise. How are either of the situations of consideration to Reish Lokish?

H David Levine, Roanoke, VA USA

The Kollel replies:

Shalom R' Levine,

Great to hear from you. I love your question, and with your permission I would like to expand on it. To be frank, I am not sure to which passage in the end of Maseches Kiddushin you are referring.

But I did see the following story in Bereishis Rabbah 17:7. A pious man was married to a pious woman, but they were not blessed with children. So, since they believed they were not accomplishing anything for Hash-m, they consequently decided to get divorced. The original man went and got married to a wicked woman and she turned him into a Rasha. Meanwhile, the original woman went and got married to a wicked man and she turned him into a Tzadik. (The Midrash learns from here that everything depends on the woman.)

You cited Reish Lakish on our Daf who says that a person's will be matched with a spouse whose righteousness or wickedness is congruous to his deeds. As you know, our Gemara puts this at odds with the statement of Rav who says that spouses are predetermined even before birth (of the boy; see Tosfos DH Kodem). The Gemara, as the Mefarshim explain, concludes that Rav was referring to one's first spouse (Predetermined before birth), whereas Reish Lakish was referring to one's second spouse (according to one's actions).

I understand you to be asking that this seems to be in direct contradiction with the story we cited above from the Medrash. I am humbled by your strong Kashya, and even after considerable search and thought, I feel I do not have a definitive answer.

But, I invite you to see the Gemara in Moed Katan 18b, which discusses whether through the power of prayer one can potentially alter whether he marries his intended mate. Granted, the Gemara there is referring to the statement about predetermination (although in Moed Katan it appears slightly differently, and it is cited in the name of Shmuel instead of Rav); neverthless, an argument can be made that the selection of one's spouse in one's second marriage also can be affected by prayer.

I hope this helps!

Warmest regards,

Yishai Rasowsky

H. D. asks:

Thanks for the reply.

Rabbi Shalom Rosner, who gives daf yomi on the OU website, cites the kasha on Naval, and his wife, the first of whom David had executed, as he is a renowned rasha, and his wife a great tsadekis. I felt perhaps in the long course of a marriage, one or one's other may change many times, but the medrash, which I thought to have seen in Kidushin, concerned shidduch, and seemed more difficult.

The Kollel replies:

Shalom R' Levine,

Rabbi Rosner is a wonderful Magid Shiur. I enjoy listening to his explanations of the Daf whenever I have the opportunity. I appreciate you referring me to his comment here https://alldaf.org/p/27007.

At timestamp 35:50, someone attending the Shiur pointed out that Avigail's marriage to Naval and subsequent marriage to David ha'Melech actually appears to fit well with the Gemara's Maskana that Zivug Rishon is preordained whereas Zivug Sheni is according to one's righteousness.

The Rav was still bothered why she would marry him in the first place. But it is not fully clear to me why this is an ironclad Kashya. For example, do we know that she willingly married him knowing that he would be a despicable character?

I appreciate your important insight that in the course of married life, one spouse or the other might change. From the story in the Medrash we see one form of this phenomenon, though in that case it was a result of each wife influencing her husband to become more similar to her. Challenging situations of the opposite type exist, including nowadays, where two spouses grow apart from each other. For example, they were both originally not religious, and later one spouse decides to become so. Or, heaven forbid, the opposite case, where both spouses begin as religious and one of them decides to drop it.

Warmest regards,

Yishai Rasowsky