More Discussions for this daf
1. 'To ask' or "Not to ask', that is the question; 2. Ran 5b, 3 lines above the wide lines 3. Nedarim and Charamim
4. Ran DH Ella Hachi Itmar Ta'ama (5a-5b) 5. Why does the Gemara need another example for Eino Muchach
DAF DISCUSSIONS - NEDARIM 5

Ben asks:

We said that a neder and a cherem is an issur on the article so if so how is "Hareini Alecha Cherem" an issur on the article but you are making YOURSELF ossur on the person and hot him ossur on you.

And a second question which I have is if a neder is a issur on a article then how could I make a person which is not an article ossur on me

Ben, London

The Kollel replies:

Shalom Rav,

Cheftza and Gavra in the realm of Nedarim are alternative words for subject and object, respectively.

Consequently, if you forbid something with a Shevu'ah (which is an Isur Gavra), you are forbidden to eat it (or derive whatever benefit the Shevu'ah involves). Whereas if you forbid it with a Neder (incorporating a Cherem), it is the article that is forbidden on you ; it makes no difference whether the article concerned is an inanimate object or a person.

That being the case, both your questions are answered. "Hareini Alecha Cherem" means that you become an Isur Cheftza on the other person. Likewise, if I declare someone Asur on me, then he is Asur to me with an Isur Cheftza (and not that I am forbidden to benefit from him ).

B'Virchas Kol Tuv,

Eliezer Chrysler

Benzi Weltscher asks:

If the definition of a neder is that I am making an article ossur on me or on someone else then why does the ran say (the first ran on 5a) d'Mashma Mudar Ani v'Nechasai Mimcha but that means that me and my possessions can't have benefit from you so that is not a neder it's a Shevuah because I am saying that I CANT HAVE BENEFIT FROM YOU and not that I am making your Hana'ah Asur for me?

The Kollel replies:

The fact that a Neder is an Isur Cheftza is a given and is not debatable; see the first Ran in the Masechta.

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove from the Ran on Daf 5a.

In any event, "Mudar Ani u'Nechasai mi'Mecha" means that I and my property are forbidden on you.

B'Virchas Kol Tuv,

Eliezer Chrysler