More Discussions for this daf
1. hebrew chart (middle chart) 2. An Ashir Who Took Leket 3. עשיר שלקח לקט

allen schuldenfrei asked:

First, thank you for resuming the hebrew charts. I find them to be very helpful in understanding the gemarah.

Second, I direct your attention to the middle chart. I am wondering whether both lines may be inaccurate. In the first line, certainly Shmuel and Rava and maybe even R' Yehuda say "shamin bedaito shel ha'av im kamtzan oh nadvan" is only if there is basis to evaluate the father's stinginess or generosity; but when there's no such basis then they agree w/ the Chachmim and Rebbi.

Conversely, Rebbi (in line 2) says we give her 1/10 is true only if there's no basis to asses father's stinginess/generosity but if there's a basis will agree that we follow the father's predisposition like R' Yehuda. While the Chachamim ALWAYS give her 1/10.

Thank you for your time.

Allen schuldenfrei, baltimore, maryland USA

The Kollel replies:

In response to your two queries:

The second one is correct. The Gemara specifically establishes Rava ruling like Rebbi, who says that a daughter ... receives a tenth from the brothers, in a situation where one is unable to assess the father, and this statement pertains to Rebbi's statement, no less than to Rava's ruling. In effect then, Rebbi may well hold like Rebbi Yehudah.

I cannot however, agree with your first query. Firstly, how can you say 'Shmuel ... and maybe even R. Yehudah, say 'Shamin be'Da'ato shel ha'Av ... ', when the Gemara specifically establishes Shmuel like Rebbi Yehudah?

Secondly, the Gemara concludes 'Kamashma Lan Ta'ama de'Rebbi Yehudah de'Azlinan Basar Umdena, Lo Shna Hisi'ah, ve'Lo Shna Lo Hisi'ah ... ', so how can you suggest otherwise?

Be'Virchas Kol Tuv

Eliezer Chrysler