More Discussions for this daf
1. Blood being a Machshir l'Tum'ah 2. Beis Shamai acting in accordance with their view 3. Beis Shammai
4. Rashi DH she'Hen Lachin 5. Lo Sisgodedu 6. צרת הבת
7. רש"י ד"ה שהן לחין
DAF DISCUSSIONS - YEVAMOS 15

Sender Klein asks:

I am trying to put together the maskana of the Lo Sisgodedu sugya. It seems that Beis Shammai would have followed Beis Hillel even l'hakel like Tos' points out (DH v'Sicheich Al Gabei Mitah- mi'Kan Mashma d'Man d'Amar Lo Asu Afilu Heichah d'Beis Shamai l'Chumrah, etc.). How can they do the wrong thing just based on that? Is lo sisgodedu a heter? Also the Gemara earlier clarified that there was good reason to be unsure how to pasken, but if so, then should Lo Sisgodedu apply equally to get Beis Hillel to not follow their own Shita but rather Beis Shammai's, just like Beis Shammai applied it in the reverse? Or maybe at least for Lo sisgodedu, it is clear that the majority governs, and not the ???????

Secondly, the case where R' Tarfon wanted to marry off his tzaras ervah, seems a bit perplexing. Even if she would marry a member of Beis Hillel who permit her, she was likely a member of Beis Shammai, and if so should she be prohibited to do so?

Sender Klein, United States

The Kollel replies:

1) (a) Yes, it all depends on the majority, as the Torah states, "Acharei Rabim l'Hatos" (Shemos 23:2) -- incline after the majority. The Minchas Chinuch (Mitzvah 78:1, DH v'Hineh) writes that when the Chachamim dispute and we say that we follow the majority, the minority must retract and act according to the majority opinion. He cites our Sugya, that according to the opinion that Beis Shamai did not act according to their own words, this is because Beis Hillel are in the majority and those who dispute with them must follow the majority. We can explain that even though a person thinks he is right, that does not necessarily mean that he is right, and the real truth is what the Torah tells us to follow (i.e., the majority of the Sages).

(b) There is a source for the Minchas Chinuch from the first Rashi in Kidushin 53a. (There the dispute is not between Beis Hillel and Beis Shamai, but between different Chachamim, but the idea is the same.)

The Gemara (beginning of Kidushin 53a) states "Nimnu v'Gamru" -- they took a vote and reached a conclusion. Rashi writes that the minority must retract their opinion and say now the same as the majority.

Even though, to start off with, the minority did not agree, but they now see that the Torah says that the majority are correct, since the Torah states that the majority are right.

2) With the above idea, it seems (at first sight, at any rate) that we can explain what Rebbi Tarfon said, especially since we know that Rebbi Tarfon belonged to Beis Shamai. Even though he belonged to Beis Shamai he still must act like Beis Hillel, because they are the majority. She, too, even though she is from Beis Shamai, has to follow the majority opinion of Beis Hillel. However, this last point still requires further thought. It seems that according to the opinion that Beis Shamai did not act according to their words, it is certainly not difficult how Rebbi Tarfon could marry off the Tzaras Ervah, because according to this opinion everyone in fact did like Beis Hillel, so even if she would be a member of Beis Shamai, she may still marry.

The Kollel adds:

Follow-up reply about Lo Sisgodedu:

Lo Sigodedu is not a Heter; it is a Torah prohibition.

1) We learn this from the Rambam (Hilchos Avodah Zarah 12:14), who writes that "included in the prohibition of Lo Sisgodedu is that there should not be two courts of law in one city, one conducting itself one way, and the other a different way. This matter causes great Machlokes, as is said, 'Lo Sisgodedu' -- you shall not make yourselves separate groups (Agudos Agudos)."

2) See the Pri Megadim on the Shulchan Aruch (OC 493:6, Eshel Avraham) who syas that Lo Sisgodedu is a Torah prohibition.

3) Rashi (14b, DH Lo Ta'asu) writes that if one does different things in different places, this makes it look as though one is carrying out two Torahs. Lo Sisgodedu is not only a question of making peace between different parts of the Jewish people, but what is at stake is the unified Torah that we received on Har Sinai.

4) Once the Halachah has been decided -- by the Bas Kol or by the majority as the Gemara on 14a states -- it follows that there is a Torah prohibition for Beis Shamai to follow their own opinion.

B'Hatzlachah Rabah,

Dovid Bloom