More Discussions for this daf
1. Simcha offerings 2. Beis Hillel and Beis Shammai - Deeper meaning? 3. Klaloseihen
4. Klalos Nemra Bsinai 5. Beis Shamai vs. Beis Hillel on Olas Re'iyah and Shalmei Chagigah 6. Korban Chagigah in partnership etc.
7. Korban Olah before Matan Torah 8. Comment on Outlines 9. Kelalim
10. Klalim u'Pratim b'Matan Torah 11. Why is the gemoro only discussing chigger in bes shamai 12. הזבחים ומנחה הגשתם לי
DAF DISCUSSIONS - CHAGIGAH 6

Matthew Kan asked:

I am so very glad that you are out there, Yasher koach!

My question is: What exactly is the status of the Shalmei simcha? I mean who brings it? ( I knoww that women bring it(Rambam)) But.. every man brings the olas reiyah and the chaggiga., But as I understand it not everyone brings the 'extra' simcha. who does bring it, and under what circumstance? Thank you very much

Matthew Kan, Skokie,Illinois USA

The Kollel replies:

Matthew,

Although the Rambam (Hil Chagigah 1:1) does appear to say, as you wrote, that women are obligated to bring the Shalmei Simchah, this does not seem to be so. As the Ra'avad there points out, the Gemara in Kidushin 34b makes it clear that she really is not obligated at all. Rather, her husband is obligated to feed her the Shalmei Simchah that he brings, in order to make his wife joyous . (A divorced woman is fed Shalmei Simchah by her neighbor/supporter, Kidushin ibid.) This seems to be the consensus of the other Rishonim as well. (We mentioned this in our Insights to Daf 6:1:b.) The Kesef Mishnah writes that the Rambam himself agrees to the Ra'avad's ruling, even though he does not write it clearly.

However, the Me'iri (Rosh Hashanah 6b) and Lechem Mishneh (Ma'aseh ha'Korbanos 14:14) indeed understand the Rambam at face value -- as you did -- and say the that Rambam does not accept the Gemara in Kidushin as Halachah.

As for who and how one brings Shalmei Simchah, let me copy here two pieces of information from our Kollel's work which should help you clarify these points:

(Background to the Daf, Chagigah 6a)

1) [line 2] SIMCHAH

(a) The Mitzvah of Simchah (Devarim 27:7) that applies on the three festivals of Pesach, Shavu'os and Sukos requires a person to eat from sacrifices every day of the holiday. If no other sacrifice is available, the person brings a special Korban, known as Shalmei Simchah, for the purpose of fulfilling this Mitzvah.

(b) Besides offering extra Korbanos, the Mitzvah of Simchah also requires that all of the Jews be happy on the holidays. Buying food and clothing that cause one to be happy, each person according to his taste, fulfills this Mitzvah. One must also remember to support the poor and downtrodden on Yom Tov, for if one spends one's time eating and drinking without helping the poor, it is not considered a Simchah Shel Mitzvah; rather, it is Simchas Kreiso (a feast for one's stomach) (RAMBAM Hilchos Yom Tov 6:17-18)

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(Insights to the Daf)

THE "KORBAN SIMCHAH" OF YOM TOV

OPINIONS: On each Yom Tov, every person is obligated to bring three types of Korbanos -- the Olas Re'iyah, the Shalmei Chagigah, and the Shalmei Simchah. The former two are brought once during the Yom Tov, while the Shalmei Simchah is eaten every day of the Yom Tov to fulfill the Mitzvah of Simchas Yom Tov, experiencing the joy of eating meat from Korbanos throughout the Yom Tov.

Does the obligation of offering Shalmei Simchah require that one sacrifice a Korban Simchah, or does it require that one eat from the meat of a Shalmei Simchah? If the only obligation is to eat from the Korban but not necessarily to sacrifice it, one could fulfill his obligation by eating the meat of someone else's Korban Simchah; if not, he must bring his own.

(a) The Gemara (Pesachim 71a) says that the Chiyuv of Shalmei Simchah applies even to the last night of Sukkos, the night of Shemini Atzeres (and not the following day, according to Rashi; see however Rashi in Sukah 48a DH Lerabos). The DEVAR SHMUEL cites those who prove from here that it must be a Chiyuv to eat the Korban and not to sacrifice it, because one cannot bring a Korban at night.

TOSFOS (96b, end of DH Ta'un) indeed says that a person fulfills his obligation of Simchah by eating his friend's Korban, as the ARUCH LA'NER points out (Sukah 48a).

(b) RASHI (Pesachim 70a, DH Yotzei) is bothered by the question of how a person can fulfill his obligation of Shalmei Simchah with an animal that is not Chulin. The rule is that any obligatory Korban -- such as the Shalmei Simchah -- must come from Chulin and not from an animal which is already Kadosh to be brought as a Korban (such as Ma'aser Behemah). Rashi answers by bringing the Gemara in Chagigah 8a, where a verse is cited from which it is learned that the Shalmei Simchah is an exception to this rule and may be brought from Chulin.

If the Chiyuv is to eat the Shalmei Simchah, then there is no obligation per se to bring the Korban, and if so, it should not have to come from Chulin! Something which must be eaten does not have to come from Chulin -- only something which must be sacrificed does. From Rashi it therefore seems that there is a Chiyuv to sacrifice a Korban for Shalmei Simchah, and one may not satisfy his obligation by eating from another's Korban. (It does not seem from Rashi that the verse teaches that it is not necessary to sacrifice, but only to eat, a Korban for Simchah. The verse does not seem to be teaching an entirely different understanding of the Mitzvah of Simchah.)

This is also evident from the ruling of Rebbi Elazar (Pesachim 70b) that one fulfills the Mitzvah of Simchah only when eating a Korban that was slaughtered on the Regel . If the Mitzvah involves only eating meat of a Korban, what difference does it make if the Korban was slaughtered on Yom Tov or before Yom Tov? It must be that the Mitzvah involves offering the Shalmei Simchah as well as eating it.

What about the Gemara which says that there is a Chiyuv of Simchah even at night? How can there be a Chiyuv of Simchah at night, if the Chiyuv of Simchah is to bring a Korban, and it is not possible to bring a Korban at night?

It must be that Rashi understood that the Shalmei Simchah is similar to the Korban Pesach, in the sense that the entire purpose of sacrificing the Korban is in order to eat it. The obligation of Simchah is for a person to eat meat of his Korban every day of the Regel and the last night of the Regel. In this sense, bringing a Korban is obligatory. However, it is not obligatory to bring a Korban on every day of the Regel , let alone on the last night. In fact, it may not even be obligatory to bring a Korban on the Regel altogether. The Gemara (Pesachim 70a, 71a) cites opinions that one may even fulfill the Mitzvah of Simchah by eating a Korban slaughtered on Erev Pesach (in contrast to the opinion of Rebbi Elazar, on 70b); as long as it is his Korban, it makes no difference whether or not it was brought on the Regel itself. (Rav Shach, shlit'a, in AVI EZRI, Hilchos Chagigah 2:3, proposes a similar reasoning; see also DEVAR SHMUEL, Pesachim 109a.)