More Discussions for this daf
1. Rebbi Yehudah's opinion and the Mishnah 2. Proof that Mitzvos must be performed during daytime 3. Yemei Zivus
4. Different order between the Mishnah and Gemara
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MEGILAH 20

Daniel asked:

This is probably a completely stupid question, but:

How are women today allowed to be machmir on themselves and treat themselves as completely niddah if they have a re'iya during the 11 days of zivus? Isn't there a (quite severe) prohibition against a woman delaying her tevila?

Daniel, Copenhagen, Denmark (formerly Kyoto)

The Kollel replies:

This is not a stupid question at all - in fact it is a very interesting one.

The Gemara below 28b reports that Rabbi Zeira said that the daughters of Yisrael were stringent upon themselves that even if they see a drop of blood as small as a mustard seed, they wait 7 clean days.

Rashi there DH SHE'HECHMIRU gives 2 reasons for the chumra:

(1) not all women know whether they are in the 7 days of Nidah or the 11 days of "Zivah" and if they should bleed even once at the end of 7 clean days this would break up everything and they would have to start counting again,

(2) they might have bled on 2 consecutive days without being aware of this, and then, on the 3rd day, if there was bleeding, they would in fact be a "Zivah Gedolah" but would not know about this.

Therefore the women were Machmir to require 7 clean days for every kind of bleeding. (Other reasons are given by the Rishonim for the Chumra - see the Ran in Shevuos 4a, in Rif pages, and Talmidei Rabeinu Yonah Berachos 22a in Rif pages DH SHE'AFILU.)

However your question remains valid - even though there are genuine reasons for making this Chumra, nevertheless since mid'Oraisa she is permitted to her husband (and see in fact the Tur in YD end #183 who refers to this as a Chumra on top of a Chumra - i.e. even though the Chumra is correct and justified, it is nevertheless quite far-fetched) how could the women come on their own initiative and make up a Chumra which contradicts the Torah obligation that a woman must go to Mikveh for her husband?

The answer seems to be that in the course of time Chazal in fact agreed with, and licensed and obligated everyone to put this Chumra into practice. See the Gemara (Nidah 66a) which cites R. Zeira's Din. Shortly afterwards, in Nidah 67b, the Gemara reports that Rav Papa said to Rava and Abaye that nowadays the Rabanan gave all women a Din of "Zavos" out of doubt. Rashi DH SAFEK writes that the source of this is R. Zeira's chumra. This suggests that even though the women started the Chumra, nevertheless afterwards the Rabanan made it into a Din. This is also apparent from Tosfos in Megilah 28b DH SHE'AFILU who refer to this Din as a Takanah of the Sages.

In addition, see the Rif in Shevuos 4a (in Rif pages) who cites R. Zeira and then writes that the Rabbis made an extra measure to keep people far away from "Aveirah" and "Hinhigu (instituted the custom) that the daughters of Yisrael should follow R. Zeira", because the Gemara in Berachos 31a states that the practice of R. Zeira is "Halachah Pesukah" - a Halachah that we Pasken.

See also Hilchos Nidah by Ramban (printed at the end of the Chidushei Ramban to Maseches Nidah), chapter 1

#19, who writes that "this Chumra which was practised by the daughters of Yisrael was found to be fit in the eyes of the Sages, and they made it a Halachah Pesukah universally. Therefore it is forbidden always to be light-headed about this."

Once Chazal have made this Chumra into the Halachah, it is not difficult to understand how they could do this and remove the wife's obligation to her husband, because Chazal possess the power passively to remove a positive commandment in order that people should not come to a transgression (in a similar way that they said one may not blow the Shofar on Rosh Hashanah which falls on Shabbos, so that one should not come to carry the Shofar in the public domain).

However the question might still remain - in the early days of the Chumra, before the Chachamim had given it their official approval, how could the wives take away their husbands' rights?

The answer seems to be that the husbands also agreed to practising this Chumra, because they did not want to stumble on a prohibition of Nidah by mistake. However, if a husband was adamant that he did not want to follow this Chumra, he was entitled to do so, and his wife was obligated for "Tashmish". However, after Chazal made this a compulsory Din, the husbands were also obligated to follow it.

(Incidentally, I found that the Meshech Chochmah to Shemos 12:22 DH VE'ATEM, writes that when the Beis ha'Mikdash will be rebuilt, the Din of R. Zeira will be abolished, because otherwise a woman would never know when to bring a "Korban Zivah".)

KOL TUV

D. Bloom

P.S. be'Hatzlachah Rabah in Denmark!!