More Discussions for this daf
1. The end of Maseches Ta'anis 2. Offensive dance? 3. How Many Died in the Midbar each day?
4. Yefefiyos 5. יום תבר מגל
DAF DISCUSSIONS - TA'ANIS 31

Yitzchak Jaffe asked:

Hello.

Recently, B"H, I made a siyum on mashechet Taanit. Traditionally I'd seen people read a paragraph or so of the final gemara at their siyum. But when I got there, I realized I could only read the final sentence without severely offending several guests. As I'm sure you know the gemara there speaks about Tu B'Av, and makes such sweeping statements as "Women are only for their beauty" and "Women are only for having children". So my question is twofold:

1. B'ezrat Hash-m, soon I'll be going out and doing a little outreach. What happens the next time someone places this gemara before me, when I can't just seemly skip over it without anyone knowing? Basically, what's an accurate and gentle way of explaining this gemara?

2. Year after year I've heard countless shiurim about the spiritual superiority of women, of how central their role is to the Jewish home, etc. Could you please give me a proper understanding of what this gemara really means. After all, the term "only" is used twice, so I couldn't possibly fully understand it.

Just please explain how this gemara fits it well with the complete hashkafic outlook Judaism has towrd women.

Thank you very much.

Yitzchak Jaffe, Efrat, Israel

Rabbi Nissel replies:

Shalom Uvracha! My name is Menachem Nissel, I was asked by Kollel Iyun HaDaf to respond to your question.

I am sending you an attached Word document which contains the Hashkafah section of my Sefer, "Rigshei Lev - Women and Tefillah" (Targum Press). In Chapter Two I develop a "respectful to women" - yet decidedly unapologetic presentation of the female role, with many Mar'ei Mekomos. Chazal see the male-female relationship as a mirror of the G-d -man relationship (called "Kudsha Brich Hu - Knesses Yisrael"-) and this has practical relevance in how we play our roles. For more Marei Mekomos, see "Male and Female He created them," by Yisrael Ben Reuven (Targum Press).

The end of Gemara Taanis brings the vision of the Tzaddikim making a circle around the Holy One - a clear reference to a Kallah encircling her groom - the finger pointing is the Kallah's ring (see Ben Yehoyada).

Thus the only way to comprehend the seemingly bizarre ritual of women dancing in the vineyards (and on Yom Kippur - was it before or after Musaf??) is that the ONLY women who were allowed to do this were those on a quasi-prophetic level, who could focus (Mechaven) TOTALLY on "Kneses Yisrael," and ONLY men who could be Mechaven TOTALLY on "Kudsha Brich Hu" would be allowed to go out. Support for this comes from the statement of Chazal that this is how King Shaul found his mate, which in turn symbolizes the reunification of Klal Yisrael after the split from Shevet Binyamin.

BTW - in real Kiruv you will never get this question (I've been doing this for years) - but I recommend you get the tape series on How to Answer Questions from Rabbi Dovid Orlofsky (Jerusalem tel.: 02-651-4727), or at least his two tapes on women's issues.

Menachem Nissel