I was trying to see how Avudraham got the start of Tal U'Mattar at Maariv on Nov 21. In calculating the 60 days from tekufas Tishrei - Sept 23- and the start of Tal U'Mattar, you start the count with the day after the tekufah- Sept 24. This gives Maariv on Nov 21. However, doesn't the Beis Yosef say that the day of the tekufah is day one, followed by 58 days and then we say Tal U'Mattar on day 60- which means Maariv on Nov. 20?
bernard dickman, brooklyn, NY, USA
The Avudraham says that the Tekufah is seven days before October which would be the 24th of September. If we count this as the first day, day sixty would be on 22nd November as the Avudraham says. Although it is true that one would say Tal u'Matar at Ma'ariv on the evening before it actually becomes the 22nd, I would suggest that the Avudraham ignored this since the night is the night of the next day, even though, by convention we only change the date at midnight. Perhaps in the place of the Avudraham the date changed in the evening, as in the Jewish calender.
Dov Freedman
1) In at least two places in your explanation of the Gemara, you call Tekufas Tishrei the vernal equinox. Obviously VE occurs in Spring.
2) You state that the autumnal equinox occurs on Sept 23 which according to the Beis Yosef is day one of the 60 day count not Sept 24 as you claim. Thus there are 8 days in Sept (9/23-9/30), 31 days in Oct so that Nov 21 is the 60th day and Maariv on Nov 20 is when Tal U'Mattar starts.
1. You are correct, obviously.
2. The Avudraham says that the Tekufah is on 24th September as I wrote.
D Freedman