More Discussions for this daf
1. Freeing one's self 2. Afflictions of Love 3. Tenth son
4. Davening 5. Aba Shaul was upset for only two things in his life 6. Keri'at Shema Al ha'Mitah
7. Exemptions to the Bedtime Shema 8. Yisurim Shel Ahavah 9. The tooth borne by Rebbi Yochanan
10. Reference Gemara 11. Forced to sell 12. Al Tikrei
13. correction Afflictions of Love 14. Loss of Children 15. Olam HaBa
16. TALMID CHOCHUM 17. Rav Yochanan and the bone of his tenth son
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 5

David Goldman asked:

This is regarding daf he amud alef.

1) Rashi explains the concept of a seller who is forced to sell an object, is a little sad, while the buyer is happy. Yet, Hash-m is not like that with his Torah... How is this similar? Can we say that Hash-m is "forced" to give the Torah, but is not sad? Or can we say in a certain respect that Hash-m is happy like buyer of an object would be, while at times Klal Yisrael has reacted like the seller, who is "sad" at being forced to follow the Torah, instead of a buyer who should be happy??

2) ALSO, about yisurim that are meant to give a person greater olam habah than his zechusim would entitle him to. Why couldn't it be argue that BECAUSE of the yisurim the person is prevented from doing mitzvahs and learning that reduce the zechusim he would have gotten? Can we answer by saying that the yisurim provide the person with even MORE zechusim for Olam Habah than he would have EVEN obtained had he NOT had the yisurim?!

The Kollel replies:

1) It seems that Rashi (beginning of DH ha'Mocher Atzav) emphasizes that the reason why the seller is said is because he is parting with such a valuable and precious object. Rashi adds that he is forced to sell it only to explain why the owner is parting with such a precious object. The part of the metaphor that applies to Hash-m is that He parts with a precious object (the Torah), but not that He was forced to part with it. (We could add, also, that in a sense, Hash-m was forced to part with the Torah. As part of the scheme of creation that Hash-m wanted, He had to give the Torah to a people in this world in order to fulfill the purpose of His creation.)

This is the basic way of understanding the Gemara. The Vilna Ga'on on Berachos gives another approach.

2) This question is according to the opinion in the Gemara that Yesurin can be Yesurin Shel Ahavah even when there is Bitul Torah (the other opinions are in agreement with your question, as they maintain that if there is Bitul Torah, then they are not Yesurin Shel Ahavah). Your answer is good. The Yesurin provide the person with even more Zechusim for Olam ha'Bah, but not in and of themselves. Rather, the Yesurin motivate him to improve his Tefilah and his learning in the future, and that is how he gets more Zechusim.

David Goldman asked:

Dear Reb Mordechai shelita!

With regard to the yisurim, I was leaning towards thinking from a chasidish point of view that the very impediments of the yisurim would transform ones misdeeds into mitzvahs and the zechusim of THOSE would be even greater than the zechusim acquired through the good deeds and mitzvos that were missed! This would be a big chizuk in wondering about all the loss of learning and ruchnius that occurs when a person is immersed in those yisurim...

The Kollel replies:

Good, but how do the Yesurin transform one's misdeeds into Mitzvos? What if the person is a Rasha and is racked with Yesurin all his life, but does not do Teshuvah? Is he better than a Tzadik who does not have any misdeeds to turn into Mitzvos? It must be that the Yesurin transform the misdeeds into Mitzvos through causing the person to introspect, contemplate, and do Teshuvah m'Ahavah. It is doing Teshuvah out of Ahavah that the Mishnah in Yoma says causes a person's misdeeds to become merits (and not merely though affliction alone).

Thank you very much for the insight and clarification!

David Goldman asked:

Yes, 100% agreement. I would like to think that my yisurim are indeed connected to my trying to do teshuvah, and that indeed is comparable enough to actually learning and doing other mitzvos that I lose because of my inability to overcome the yisurim. There must be some degree of yisurim shel ahavah there!!