More Discussions for this daf
1. Moshia Es Yisrael 2. Hazarato KeTumato 3. Barchu or Nevarech
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 49

I Pacanowski asks:

Thank you Rabbi Bloom for your ongoing explanations. They are very geshmuk and interesting.

In Brochos 49b the Gemora says it is preferable to say Nevorech, rather than Borchu buy the mezamen, so that he includes himself in the brocha of Hash-m. As Shmuel said, a person should never exclude himself from the klal.

Why then in davening and when called to the Torah, does the baal tefilla or the one being called up say Borchu rather than Nevorech?

Tosfos D'H Le'olom brings this question from the Yerushalmi. The Yerushalmi answers since he also says Ha'mevorach - Hash-m is blessed - in Tefilla and being called to the Torah, the baal tefilla is including himself in the Brocha and therefore can say Borchu.

In effect both of these options achieve the similar result. Why did Chazal choose the Nevorech option for benching and the Borchu. . . Hamevoroch option for Tefilla and being called to the Torah?

Next, we need to analyse the nusach of Kaddish.

It is interesting to note the loshon: be'chayeichon uvyo'meichon - which means in your lives and your days, speaking to the people around him. Note he doesn't include himself and say "in our lives and our days". Why not?

He also says 've'imru omein', rather than including himself and saying 'venomar omein'.

Yet later in Kaddish he does include himslef saying 'vechayim tovim oleinu ' - for us.

In Kaddish Derabonon, the nusach is 'Yehei lehoin ulechoin', which means it should be for them (the Rabonon, students etc) and you. He again does not include himself.

Interestingly, I found the girsa of Kaddish Derabonon in R Yaakov Emden's siddur to be 'Yehei lehoin velono', which means it should be for them (the Rabonon, students etc) and us.

Kol Tuv

Yisroel Alter

The Kollel replies:

Reb Yisroel Alter, thank you for your very kind comments.

1)

The Teshuvas Radbaz 1:772 explains why we say Nevorech in benching and Borchu...Hamevoroch for reading the Torah.

(a) One cannot read from the Torah unless there is a minyan. Since there is a minyan one must mention Hash-m. It is only the person who reads from the Torah who is obliged to read whilst the rest of the community are not obliged to make a berocha. The berocha that he makes is based on the verse (Devorim 32:3) "For when I call the Name of Hash-m; ascribe greatness to our G-d". This means that he says to the rest of the congregation "when I bless Hash-m you should ascribe greatness to our G-d". This is why he says to them "Borchu", because he is reading from the Torah but he also wants them to bless Hash-m.

(b) So for Kerias Hatorah it is not appopriate to say Nevorech because it is only one person who is actually obliged in the berocho. He has to say Borechu. However when he says Borechu it looks like he has excluded himself from the klal. This is why he also says Hamevorach, because this way he re-enters the klal since he says that Hash-m is blessed by everyone.

(c) Birkas Hamazon is different because they have all eaten together and they are all obliged for Zimun. One person makes a berocho for all of them; who are all obliged; so he says "let us bless Hash-m". Because he has not excluded himself from the klal, he does not have to re-enter by saying "Hamevoroch".

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom

Correction:

I should have written Teshuvas Radbaz 1:572 not 1:772.

Apologies

Dopvid Bloom

Follow-up reply about the Nusach of Kadish:

1) It seems to me that he says first "Be'chayeicon Uveyomeichon"; and then says "and in the lifetime of the entire House of Yisroel". When he prays for the whole of Yisroel, this certainly means that he is not excluding himself from the community.

2) The Magen Avraham 66:7 in the name of Mateh Moshe makes an important observation. At the end of Shemoneh Esreh; at the end of "Oseh Sholom"; we say "v'Imroo Amen". This applies even if a person is davening on his own. So who is he saying "and let us say Amen" to?

Mateh Moshe answers that he is saying this to the Malachim that guard him. Everyone has angels who accompany him and protect him.

Possibly in Kadish also, when we say v'Imroo Amen, this is a request to the Malachim.

3)

(a) Teshuvas B'Tzeil Hachochmah 5:58:5, by Rav Betzalel Stern zt'l of Melbourne, asks the question about "lehoin ulechoin" in Kadish deRabanan.

(b) I found that Masas Kapai, by Rav Dovid Kahn of Brooklyn, also asks the question in the name of Tzelusa d'Avraham (page 164). Masas Kapai answers that the question is not difficult since we have a rule "Hamevareich Misbareich".

(c) I think that what this means is that we find in Sotah 38b that any Cohen who gives a beracha automatically also receives a beracha. If you give a beracha to somebody else that means you want to help him and you want things to be good for him. You are not excluding oneself from the klal; on the contrary you are helping the klal. This is different to what Shmuel said in Berachos 49b, because the Gemara here is discussing when we give a beracha to Hash-m. If someone only tells us others to bless Hash-m but does not bless Hash-m himself, this means he is excluding himself from the community, because he does not want to bless Hash-m together with them. But if he gives berachos to other people, this shows he is a a part of them, and cares about everyone.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom

Reference:

The Masas Kapai is in volume 1 page 23

Dovid Bloom