More Discussions for this daf
1. A minor being Motzi one who ate a "k'Zayis" 2. 'Ruba de'Mink'ra' 3. Ruba d'Minkera
4. When to say Birkas ha'Mazon 5. Discharging the obligation of others 6. Why don't we have to mention Bris and Torah in Al ha'Michyah
7. Contradicting a Tana with an Amoraic statement 8. Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel 9. Birkas haMazon on a complete meal without bread
10. Yanai's wickedness
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 48

Jeffrey Schwartz asked:

On 48b, the gemara concludes that one can discharge the bentching obligation of others only if he has eaten at least a kizayis of bread. Why is this so and what is the halacha for other berachas where one person recites it for others but he is not obligated?

Keep up the great work! Cal tuv.

The Kollel replies:

If one has not eaten a k'Zayis of bread, he is not obligated to recite Birkas ha'Mazon at all (it is as if he did not eat). If one has not eaten, he may not recite a blessing on food for someone else. This applies to Birkos ha'Nehenin, blessings before and after eating. The ROSH (Berachos 3:13) explains that the Rabanan decreed that one who did not get pleasure from the food should not recite a blessing on it for someone else, because it looks odd, even though m'Ikar ha'Din one should be able to recite the blessing for someone else because of the general rule of "Arvus" (see Insights 20:4). Blessings for Mitzvos, on the other hand, may be recited for someone else, because since one is essentially obligated to perform the Mitzvah (even though one already discharged his obligation), he may recite the blessing for someone else because of "Arvus."

The Kollel replies:

In Rosh Hashana 29a Rava raises a similar question and the answer is since the Birkas haNehenin is a requirement of the Mitzva then one can say the Bircas haNehenin for someone else just like Birkas haMitzva. Since the Shliach Tzibur cannot fulfill his obligation of Kidush as he is not eating in the shul and Ein Kidush Ela biMekom Seuda, he cannot drink the wine as it is forbidden to eat or drink before Kidush. Hence the custom to have a child have the intention to Yotzei the Borei Pri haGafen with the Shaliach Tzibur and to drink the wine. Even though the Katan is only Yotzei the Borei Pri haGafen it is allowed for the purpose of the minhag of Kiddush in Shul This raises a further question of giving a child a drink before the child has heard Kidush biMekom Seuda. See the Magen Avraham 1 on O.C.269 who permits this

Of course the whole question of Kidush in Shul today is a difficult one as No-one is Yotzei at all with it. See the Tur in O.C. 269 who quotes Rav Natronai who offers a novel reason for our custom of Kidush in Shul and then states that in his opinion the custom should be stopped.

All the best

Ilan Segal