One of opinions concerning the necessity of three persons for zimun relates it to the posuk "Ki shem Hash-m ekra, havvu godel l'Elokeinu" (see also Rashi). If this possuk clearly refers to bracha berabbim, why we recite it in tefilla shel yachid (e.g. in Mincha)?
Shabbat shalom,
Shlomo Gendelman
You are asking an excellent question. The concept that the verse expresses -- that one person calls out and at least two others praise Hash-m -- seems to conflict with reciting this verse right before beginning the individual's Minchah (or Musaf) Shemoneh Esreh.
What we have found about Ki Shem in Shemoneh Esreh is as follows. Although saying the verse "Ki Shem Hash-m Ekra..." right before the Shemoneh Esreh is a universally accepted custom, it does not appear in the Poskim (the Tur mentions it in passing in OC 111). It is not considered an actual part of Shemoneh Esreh (in contrast to the other verse we say, "Hash-m Sifasai Tiftach...," which is). We have not yet found an source discussing why to include "Ki Shem Hash-m Ekra..." as a preface for Shemoneh Esreh.
If anyone out there can help us on this please do!
Mordecai Kornfeld
Actually, lan'd, it may not be universally accepted. It is my understanding that R. Yosef Dov Soloveitchik zt"l had the minhag not to recite "Ki Shem ...."
All the best
Yitzchak Kasdan
I believe minhag Ashkenaz (Frankfurt Am Mein) is not to say it. I found that whatever is Minhag Ashkenaz always has a valid source!
I've seen siddurim (I think including Roedelheim) that do not have Ki Shem... before any Shemonah Esreh. When and where was the phrase first published in siddurim? Sincerely, Yitzchak Avraham Miller Sincerely,
Robert A. Miller
Concord New Hampshire USA
We apologize for overlooking not only Minhag Ashkenaz, but other Minhagim as well, that do not say Ki Shem Hashem Ekra before Minchah. (It is brought that the Chazon Ish did not say it.)
All the best,
Y. Shaw
Perhaps the Ki Shem is there to fulfill the concept of "Shohin sha'a achas llifnei shehayu mispallilim." Since HaShem Sefasei has become part of tefillah (although it may have been instituted for the same reason), Mincha affords us the luxury of inserting an additional "dedicated" pasuk of shohim. Ideally, Ashrei should serve this purpose, however, we do not rely on the individual having said Ashrei when instituting an additional "shohim."
Sorry that I can only offer speculation (based vaguely on early learning). I imagine that you and Reb Yisrael can cook up the truth.
B'hatzlacha!!
Ephraim
Dear R' Kornfeld,
See the siddur of R'Shabsai Sofer, second volume, page 117, where R' Satz discusses the minhag of saying ki shem before shemona esra. At the bottom of page 117 he brings a Midrash Tehillim which clearly links the two.
Yours,
Leibel Lopiansky
Thank you for the very interesting sources, I think you've solved our problem, Rav Leibel. Midrash Tehilim (Socher Tov) 29:2 says the following. First it equates the verse "Havu l'Hashem Kavod v'Oz" that King David said with the verse of "Ki Shem Hashem Ekra" -- in both cases Moshe and King David were calling on others to give honor to Hashem, and to pray to Hashem. The Midrash continues that David tells us, in this Mizmor, how to pray: Havu l'Hashem... i.e., to mention Avos, Gevuros, Kedushas Hashem (as the Gemara learns from this Mizmor in Rosh Hashanah 32a; Rashi Berachos 28b DH Havu).
It seems from this Midrash that the words Ki SHem, and Havu l'Hashem, are a source for the prayer of Shemoneh Esreh that we pray. It is still not clear how this can be seen from the words Ki SHem... . Perhaps the "Ki" means not "when," but "just as." Moshe tells us to praise Hashem in Tefilah by following his lead. (In fact, the verses following the verse Ki Shem, in Haazinu, can be roughly formulating the same pattern of Avos, gevuros, Kedushas Hashem.)
Thanks again,
-Mordecai
I once saw a justification for saying "Ki shem H Akro" before Mincha based on Siporno on the Posuk. I don't recall what he says and will try to check it and get back to you.
Thank you again for the enlightening comments. The SFORNO indeed says that the words "Ki Shem Hashem Ekra" mean, "When I pray" (since the words "Korei Hashem" often refer to prayer, see his proofs).
This may indeed be the source for the Midrash that we quoted in our earlier mailing, which asserts that Moshe was asking the Jews to pray. As I mentioned then, the word "Ki" may mean, "just as I" pray, so too should you.
Be well,
-Mordecai