More Discussions for this daf
1. Souls etc. 2. Saying a Berachah on harmful things 3. rachmana
4. Mushrooms 5. Brit of Salt 6. Bring The Salt
7. Dipping bread into salt 8. Nusach of Berachos 9. נימא רב הונא דאמר כר' יוסי
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 40

David Goldman asks:

Greetings. How is it possible in the story of Binyamin the shepherd that a person could be yotsi bentching with Brich Rachmana if the Torah requires three points to be mentioned: food, Eretz Yisroel and Yerushalayim? Why doesn't the gemara even mention this at all? Even if it wants to point out that a person can be yotsi a bracha that is different than the guidelines of Chazal? What is the source for the various nusachs of Birkas hamazon and the abbreviated versions? Thanks.

I forgot about the statement that Rav was referring only to the first bracha. But then does it mean that the shepherd couldn't recite only the first bracha, but knew the other two or three in the regular form? Or does it mean that just like he was yotsi with those words for the first bracha, he could also be yotsi the rest with similar short phrases? And the implication of the gemara of course is that it applies to everyone else as well.

David Goldman, USA

The Kollel replies:

It would appear that the Gemara is teaching two possible lessons here: 1) Making a Berachah prior to eating food can be done even in other formats and not just the standardized format. This can be derived from the term "Berachah Rishonah" which could refer to the Berachah before eating (see Rosh and Tosfos ha'Rosh 2). Even in the case of Birkas ha'Mazon, if a person said "Berich Rachmana..." he is Yotzei the first Berachah and the other two Berachos do not disqualify his Birkas ha'Mazon. This is how the Mishnah Berurah (OC 194:13, Sha'ar ha'Tziyun 10, based on the Even ha'Ozer) understands this Gemara. Apparently, the shepherd did not recite the other Berachos and the Gemara does not state a short form of the other Berachos. However, the Rashba does write that the shepherd did add a conclusion to the first Berachah, as this is part of the minimum requirement for a Berachah in Birkas ha'Mazon.

As for the various different versions of Birkas ha'Mazon, I'm not sure whether you're referring to those in the Gemara or to the different customs of certain communities. I presume you have also seen the Gemara on 48b which discusses the sources of the various parts of Birkas ha'Mazon, which evolved over a period of thousands of years. The abbreviated form in our Gemara is simply a minimum requirement but does not mean that everyone could or should act in this way.

Yoel Domb

David Goldman asks:

Thank you. I am not sure I understand. Does that mean that the shepherd was only unfamiliar with the first bracha, and if so, how could that be? How could he not know the first one but know the others? OR does it mean that he recited short versions of the others in Aramaic as well, but for some reason the gemara does not mention them? And if so, why would this be?

According to Rambam a person can recite any format he wants as long as he mentions the required subjects. So how would the second one I wrote sound?

כיצד: ברכה ראשונה אומרים כתיקונה; שניה פותחים בברכת הארץ, וכוללים בה בונה ירושלים, וחותמים בברכת הארץ (תוספתא ברכות ה כד; בבלי

שם טז א; ירושלמי ב ה; רמב"ם שם; טוש"ע שם); וברכת הטוב והמטיב אין אומרים כלל (ברכות מו א; רמב"ם שם; טוש"ע שם)

ברוך אתה ה' מלך העולם, הזן את העולם לכל בריאותיו אשר ברא, ברוך אתה ה', הזן את הכל.

נודה לך ה' אלהינו על שהנחלת לאבותינו ארץ חמדה טובה ורחבה, ובריתך חתמת בבשרינו, רחם נא על מלכות בית דוד משיחך, ובנה ירושלים עיר הקודש במהרה בימינו. ברוך אתה ה', על הארץ ועל המזון.

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