More Discussions for this daf
1. Forgetting Rosh Chodesh 2. Arguing or Agreeing? 3. Lashon Yachid or Lashon Rabim
4. When may one recite Musaf 5. Expressing Simchah 6. Minyan - assembly of the town
7. Early shema and shmone esrei 8. Stam Mishnah Rule 9. Pidyon ha'Ben
10. Possible Contradiction in Rashi 11. Praying Before Zman Keri'as Shema? 12. אמר אליהו המלך בקונך
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 30

SC asks:

(a) In the story of Mereimar and Mar Zutra who would gather 10 people. Rashi notes that they would pray first and then come to give their lecture. However, he also says that during the lecture the zman for shema would be reached. Is Rashi implying that Mereimar and Mar Zutra prayed before the zman? There are multiple other opinions and customs listed but its common to all the opinions that shema must be said at the right time

(b) Also, by the way, why couldnt they stop the lecture and have the whole congregation pray together. Isnt that better than the bother of waking up extra early or the whole congregation slipping away one by one.

thank you, SC, Brooklyn, NY

The Kollel replies:

1. Mereimar and Mar Zutra probably prayed at the ideal time, which means that they would have said Shemoneh Esreh exactly at sunrise, and therefore they would say Shema slightly before sunrise. When Rashi says that the Zman for Shema was reached during the lecture, this means that the last possible time was reached at that time, which is three hours after sunrise. Although one is Yotzei up to three hours, it is better, if possible, to say Shema earlier, which is what Mereimar and Mar Zutra did.

2.

a. According to this, we can understand that as far as Mereimar and Mar Zutra were concerned, it was better for them to get up early because this way they gained the Mitzvah of praying exactly at sunrise ("Vasikin").

b. However, the question remains: why did they not stop the lecture and have the whole congregation pray together? This is a difficult question. It seems to me that the answer is that although praying with a Minyan of ten is a very important Mitzvah, teaching Torah to the entire community is an even greater Mitzvah. Having the entire congreagation pray together would have entailed breaking up the study session.

c. A source that communal Torah study is a greater Mitzvah than communal prayer may be found in the Rema (Shulchan Aruch OC 90:18) who writes that if someone learns Torah all the time and only interrupts for essential matters, it is preferable for him to pray without a Minyan in his fixed place of study rather than go to a synagogue and pray with a Minyan. The Mishneh Berurah there (#56) writes that the reason is that he should not stop learning in order to walk to the synagogue. We learn from here that learning Torah is a greater Mitzvah than praying with a Minyan. It follows that if one interrupts an entire community learning Torah in order to have them pray together, one prevents them from doing the greater Mitzvah of studying Torah at that time. This is why it was preferable that the whole congregation should slip away one by one, because this way the communal studying was not stopped; it was merely individuals who stopped learning from time to time and prayed, while the communal studying continued.

d. There is another source from the Gemara in Pesachim (109a) which relates that Rebbi Akiva never said that the time has arrived to get up from learning in the Beis ha'Midrash, with the exception of Erev Pesach and Erev Yom Kippur. We learn from there that with the exception of these two times of year, one never stops the communal Torah study, which may be why Mereimar and Mar Zutra did not want to stop the lecture and have the whole congregation pray together.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom