More Discussions for this daf
1. Tefilas Hashlamah 2. Ma'ariv after Plag Ha'Minchah on Erev Shabbos 3. Building Bathrooms Like the Persians
4. Time for Praying Shacharis 5. Keri'as Shema before Plag ha'Minchah 6. Origin Of Davening As We Know It
7. Shachar 8. Starting times of Tefilot 9. Mei Raglayim
10. Rebbi Yehudah and Plag ha'Minchah 11. Rebbi Yehudah and Plag ha'Minchah 12. Tashlumin
13. Minchah 14. korbonos 15. Musaf until 7 hours according to Rabbi Yehudah
16. Korbanos 17. Rebbi Yehudah's opinion about Shacharis 18. Tosfos DH Tefilas ha'Shachar
19. דרכו של רש״י בתחילת פרק 20. ש"ץ שטעה ביום תענית 21. מחלוקת רבנן ור' יהודה בזמן תפילת מוסף
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 26

Moshe Deutsch asks:

Did they actually "daven" as we know it or some semblance of it in the times of Kiddush hachodesh?

and if they did, did they daven maariv as we know it?(Reshus)

When did "davening" as we know it start?

The Kollel replies:

1) Prayer started as soon as the first man, Adam ha'Rishon, was created. This is explained by Rashi to Bereshis 2:5. The verse there tells us that Hash-m initially did not bring down rain, and there was no man who could work on the land. Rashi writes that the two things were connected to each other. The reason why Hash-m had not yet send rain was because man had not yet been created to work on the land, and consequently there was no one who recognized how good rain is. When Adam was created and knew that the world needs rain, he prayed for it and the rain came down and watered the trees and grasses.

2) The forefathers all prayed. Avraham Avinu introduced Shacharis (see Berachos 26b where this is derived from Bereshis 19:27, "And Avraham rose up early in the morning, to the place where he stood in front of Hash-m"), Yitzchak Avinu introduced Minchah, and Yakov Avinu introduced Ma'ariv.

3) This was not only something that the Avos did, but in fact the entire people prayed. The Rambam, at the beginning of Hilchos Tefilah, writes that it is a Torah Mitzvah to pray every day. However, it was only at the beginning of the period of the Second Beis ha'Mikdash that Ezra and his Beis Din instituted the Shemoneh Esreh as a fixed prayer (see Rambam, Hilchos Tefilah 1:4).

4) Kidush ha'Chodesh already took place in the time of the first Beis ha'Mikdash (see Kuzari 2:64 that in the time of David ha'Melech there was great expertise on the calendar). However, at that time everyone prayed in his own way (in a Minyan) but the fixed public Shemoneh Esreh had not yet been started.

5) As we have seen, the Gemara (Berachos 26b) cites an opinion that the Avos instituted the prayers. Yakov introduced Ma'ariv, as we learn that "he came upon (Vayifga) the Place" (Bereshis 28:11). The Gemara says that "Pegi'ah" means Tefilah.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

M Deutsch asks:

but certainly in the time of the ovos when you use the word "prayed" you mean like saying thank you hashem or send me rain or send so and so parnosso etc.

in the time of anshe knesses hagedola what did tefilla look like considering most people didn't know Hebrew

did they all just tsand their in their talis and tefillin and listen to the chazon?

The Kollel replies:

Moshe, to answer your second question:

The Rambam (Hilchos Tefilah 1:4) writes that the reason that Ezra and his Beis Din (which is possibly another way of describing the Anshei Keneses ha'Gedolah) instituted the 18 Blessings according to the order was actually because foreign languages had become mixed with the speech of the Jews, so that if individuals would pray in their own way, things would be very confusing. Therefore, Ezra composed a uniform prayer, the Shemoneh Esreh.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

The Kollel adds:

If we look more carefully at the above Rambam, we see the following description of the result of the fact that foreign languages had crept into the speech of the Jewish people. The Rambam writes that when one of the descendants of those people who had been exiled to foreign lands would speak, he was not able to say everything he wanted to in one language without errors. As a result, when the children of the exiles would start speaking, they were not fluent enough in Hebrew to request all of their needs from Hashem, or to tell the praises of Hashem in the Holy Tongue, without mixing in other languages. The Rambam writes that this is the reason why Ezra and his Beis Din composed the Shemoneh Esreh.

It seems to me that the Rambam is telling us that the people had not totally forgotten Hebrew, but rather that they were no longer fluent in Hebrew. We learn from the Rambam that before the destruction of the first Beis ha'Mikdash, when the people were still fluent in Hebrew, they were able to pray independently. For instance, the Gemara in Berachos 32a states that one should first praise Hashem and afterwards ask for his needs. Until the destruction of the first Beis ha'Mikdash, they knew how to do this in Hebrew without any help. After they were exiled, they were no longer fluent enough in Hebrew to do this on their own, but they did know enough Hebrew to understand the prayers that the Anshei Keneses ha'Gedolah composed for them.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

Sam Kosofsky comments:

Rebbe,

I wonder if the question meant more like the history of our current services - pesukei d'zimra, birchos kerias shema, shema, shemone esrai, chazaras hashatz, etc. If so, many of the specifics may appear in Rav Schwab's sefer and several other such sefarim.

Sam Kosofsky

The Kollel replies:

1) The original question was about praying in the times of Beis Din's Kidush ha'Chodesh. I mentioned in my first reply that David ha'Melech had a special connection with Kidush ha'Chodesh. We also find that he had a special connection with prayer, because the Mishneh Berurah (OC 46:14, and Sha'ar ha'Tziyun 46:11) cites the Tur in the name of Rav Natronai Ga'on who says that David ha'Melech instituted that one should say 100 blessings every day. This must mean that -- while possibly it was not as well organized as it is nowadays -- there nevertheless must have been quite a lot of praying going on already in those days.

2) I also found that David was responsible for Birkas ha'Gomel. This is stated by the Levush, cited by the Pri Megadim to Orach Chaim 119 (Eshel Avraham #1). It seems that the source for this is the Gemara in Berachos 54b, which cites Tehilim 107:28, describing the high sea travelers in danger: "And they cried out to Hashem in their troubles."

3) We also learn in the Mishnah in Berachos 11a that in the mornings we say two Berachos before Keri'as Shema and one afterwards, and at night two Berachos before Shema and two afterwards. Rashi cites the Talmud Yerushalmi which gives the source for this as Tehilim 119:164: "Seven times a day I praise You." Does this mean that the Berachos we say every day, before and after Keri'as Shema, were introduced by David ha'Melech himself?

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom